Interview with Elijah Ngurare

MORE than two months ago, the Swapo Party Youth League (SPYL) elected a new leadership at their congress, with Elijah Ngurare as its leader.

Recently, he took some time out to speak to The Namibian’s Christof Maletsky about the plans he has for the youth, their involvement in national politics and some of the statements they have been making. CM: It is now more than two months since you were elected into the new position of SPYL Secretary.What is new under your leadership in the SPYL that young people can look forward to? EN: As you rightly put it our congress was in August which elected me and elected new CC members.Out of the CC we elected a new NEC.At the congress a number of resolutions were taken and these are the resolutions that will guide us for the next five years.While these resolutions are new, what they seek to address are challenges that are not new to the SPYL and the Party.In other words, they are in line with the aims and objectives and political programme of the Swapo Party.But of course we have been given a specific task encapsulated in the resolutions.You would recall that in my acceptance speech I highlighted some of the expectations of the Namibian youth in accordance with our Congress theme ‘SPYL for Unity, Development and Youth Empowerment’.We believe that youth empowerment is a critical area that requires the support of all, including public- and private-sector entities.It must also be seen and recognised that the majority of the youth live in rural areas and in these areas many social amenities such as water, sanitation and electricity are a luxury.We recognise that a lot has been done since Independence but the challenge remains.In this respect, by bringing these amenities to rural areas you will create employment and thereby the youth can earn a living.These are some of the issues contemplated in our congress resolutions.I must add that we are not unaware that youth as a constituency is not homogeneous.Therefore SPYL, being a youth wing of a mass-based political movement, has a duty and obligation to respond to the needs and aspirations of all our members, supporters and sympathisers.All our youth be they rich, poor, white, black, coloured and speakers of any other language, should be comfortable to approach this office and be heard.It would not be good to be a spectator when you can make an impact through your intervention.If you see SPYL doing certain things that you are not happy with why not come to us.The SPYL leadership is conscious of the fact that humanity is fallible by nature thus we might make mistakes.Therefore our appeal is for the rank and file members, whom we represent, that they must feel free to talk to us and correct us if and when we may have been mistaken in advocating for the full implementation of the ideology, policies and programmes of the SWAPO Party.CM: One of the resolutions you took was to revive the position of Secretary for Education and included the portfolio of young pioneers in that.What exactly do you intend doing about the pioneers? EN: Actually this is not a new position, it has always been there as contemplated in the SPYL constitution.Comrade Clinton Swartbooi is currently the Secretary for Education, Pioneer Movement and Culture.Our collective view as SPYL is that our young people must understand where we are coming from, where we are and where we are going as a society and country.We must welcome an inculcation of cultural values amongst our youth – diverse as these cultural values may be.Such values include respect for elders, respect for human lives, respect for your particular community and respect for the love of your country.These values should not only be for one particular group.We believe they should cut across all races or tribes or linguistic alliances of a given people.As to your question about the Pioneers, first of all the SPYL has three categories of membership.We have individual membership, we have pioneer membership and we have honorary membership.Now what do we mean by pioneer membership? It means a young person from the age of six to before they reach 18.In terms of SPYL they will have their own statute to govern them but report to us.They have their own category of issues.Their aspirations and needs are not the same.In order for us to be seen to be responsive we have to give them space but not too far from broader understanding of the movement namely the sort of ideals and principles that are contemplated in the SPYL and mother body.In this way the pioneers get to be aware of the ideals of the movement right from an early age.Regarding the aspect of education, I agree with you that it is a challenge, which challenge was also recognised and debated at the SPYL congress.We were encouraged that the party congress was also sympathetic to the plight of our students especially when it comes to the question of Grades 10, 11 and 12 dropouts.As you may be aware, the SPYL congress resolved that these students should be allowed to repeat their grades.Fortunately there is a broader consensus on this issue within the Party.We are very aware about the challenges facing our students and we shall continue to work closely with Nanso on this matter.I am aware that our Secretary for Education, Nanso and student leaders from our institutions of higher learning have already started to create conducive platforms to debate and discuss matters of common interest to students of our country.The SPYL took the issue of repeat for Grades 10 and 12 to the party congress and the party is sympathetic and listened to us.In a matter of time, this issue will receive what we believe is a sustainable solution.CM: There is a feeling among the media and even some other Namibians that the SPYL does not believe in freedom of expression as is in the Namibian Constitution.Are they right with such assumptions? Why is it difficult to understand how the SPYL operates? EN: Well, it is an open secret that we don’t necessarily see eye to eye with Misa.You are the chairperson of Misa and there is a perception that the youth league does not believe in freedom of expression.I am not too sure whether Misa and the youth league met once to see where they differ.I think it is a wrong perception to say that the youth league does not believe in freedom of expression.SPYL is a transmitting belt of the Swapo Party ideology, policies and programmes.It is the Swapo Party which is running the Government and in charge of the Constitution.As a wing of that party’s Government we entirely believe in the fundamental rights and freedoms including freedom of the press and expression.If we as a society are frank about looking at these issues, however, there have been incidences where freedom of expression has clearly gone beyond acceptable bounds and we have expressed our opinion.It is unnatural for us to shoot down everything.Even the society knows that and we are just saying that some people are taking it a bit too far.You are aware of the reaction to cartoons published in the Nordic countries about Muhammad.What has happened? Wasn’t there a huge public outcry? Now, how many cartoons are published here in your newspaper? The least we were able to say was to condemn it.Condemning it is seen as we don’t accept freedom of expression.In the US, there are cases where somebody who is said to have leaked certain classified information is in jail.Does that now say that the US does not believe in freedom of expression? I think they do believe in freedom of expression with limits, it is just that there must be boundaries and limits to this freedoms.So it is not right to say that the youth league does not respect freedom of expression.We do, we do, we believe it is being abused and I think that abuse is sometimes deliberate.Maybe, people don’t understand how the youth league operates.We also get the impression that most in the media have never perused our documents.Therefore, when we act within those boundaries, it seems foreign to the people in the media.I think that as members of the same society it is not helpful to live on perceptions.If there is something I don’t agree with you, I
call you to say it.And I call you some other days to say that you have done better here.It’s because I believe that if we in the youth league have done something wrong you must contact us instead of forming a perception on us.We are approachable.You came here and there were no dogs or an electric fence.If we do not seem receptive to any suggestion, it is a different issue.But if we are accessible, you can talk to us.Most of the perceptions about the youth are wrong perceptions and people are deliberately distorting things and rubbishing the youth without even talking to the youth.We have a strong and capable SPYL leadership both at the national and regional level.All those cadres are there and accessible.I don’t believe people talk to them.When your newspaper publishes certain things, you cannot be judged purely on one article.You can not just formulate a whole view of The Namibian on what appeared in one article, in the same way don’t judge us purely on one article or comment we have made, but look at us holistically.CM: So all assumptions like someone in Swapo putting words in your mouths to make you appear totally foolish are wrong? Recent example was when you came up with the term ‘guided democracy’ which was basically seen as a rejection of the nomination of new candidates at the party’s congress.How independent is your thinking in the SPYL? EN: You were there at the press conference when I was presenting the outcome of the SPYL central committee meeting.People tend to underestimate and slightly insult our intelligence in the sense that we the youth cannot think for ourselves and, at all times, somebody is whispering in our ears.Of course, we are a wing of the party.Nothing stops the party from directing us.That is the normal way of running parties.That’s the way it should be.But we should not go as far as doing away with the constitution we need to follow.Whatever we do we can’t do it outside the bounds of our constitution.This is what we mean with guided democracy.We stated our reasons why we preferred the term ‘guided democracy’.People should focus on our reasons, not to speculate or concoct what or who could have whispered in our ears.The people know what happened in 2004 (Swapo extraordinary congress).Others have heralded this as the best.In our view the aftermath of the 2004 extraordinary congress insofar as it entrenched divisions within the movement: it was wrong and not in the interest of the movement.Thus we have reason to be cautious with the future and that it not be repeated.After all, when the year 2030 comes it is going to be the youth that will face the challenges of that time.Why do we start antagonising that future if we can prevent it? It is better when we have an orderly way of doing things.Some people, I know, have said that well when we talk about guided democracy, implicitly we mean others should not come in.Anybody can come in.Members of the Central Committee and members of the Politburo are all leaders of the same party.All we asked was that all democratic modes be exhausted within the Central Committee and Politburo.Everybody (from the leadership) is in those bodies, they would be able to see whether we are going the right way.Is antagonism the right way forward? Now, whether or not it was done is a different issue.People should be able to openly agree and disagree but follow the constitution.We said ideally we wanted four names to emerge from this internal democratic process which means there is going to be a vote within there.Based on your qualities people can vote for anybody there.It is a mistake for people to presume that democracy can only prevail outside those structures and not inside those structures.I don’t think so.I think it’s a mistake.If you lost through those structures, the constitution tells you to adhere to the decision of the majority.It becomes a collective decision.We commend and congratulate our Party leadership for having listened to us.Of course, we came out with three names from those structures.We are overly satisfied.It is not that somebody was whispering in our ears as some people were suggesting.The youth leadership is mature, people who are able to formulate opinions and analyse issues within the confines of the constitution of the party and the political programme.We even asked people to come and debate the issue of guided democracy but not many came.We are open to engage in whatever debate, but people should also be conscious of the fact that we have a movement to run and the expectations of our members should not be wished away.CM: There seems to be a trend of more control over State media and less transparency on what the future holds for the media in Namibia.Even the youth league is seen as one of those who want the media to serve as the voice of the ruling party.Would you agree with that? EN: Again there is another misconception that you colleagues in the media are directing to the youth league.Yes, we have called repeatedly for the regulation of the media.But if people are fair, we did not just make the calls out of the blue.There were certain specific instances but normally reports only take certain parts of our statements.We have said it is an international practice that the media is regulated.Everybody is calling for the regulation of water saying prices are too high, transport cost is too high but what’s so special about the media.Why is media a no-go area? Should we take it that the media in our country should be a sort of holy cow? Whatever it does, whether it insults, should it be taken as fine? If you follow the trend that was going on in this country some years ago Unita bandits were causing untold misery to the people in the northern regions.It seemed as though the media was siding with Unita.In this case where we expected to applaud the media, I think not! With our participation in the DRC, the media behaved as if Namibia is not their State.Whatever the media is writing in this country is part and parcel of Namibia and it must be in the interest of the country.When America invaded Iraq, there were embedded journalists.Why were they embedded? Was it in the interest of dissidents or was it in the interest of the invading power? Why can we in this country not talk about a patriotic media? When I look at you and you look at me, are we not citizens of the same country? Is the work of the media not to objectively inform and educate and maybe entertain? But sometimes the media has gone overboard.We have than been of the view that the standard practice over the world is to regulate the media.We should not be an island out of the global community.Is media regulation in the world a taboo? It is not that we want less transparency or we want mouthpieces of the State.No.Let us be seen to be projecting a view that is commensurate with the country you love.Not as if you are hating this country while you are here.Why is it that somebody is persistently putting petrol on fire? Why is it like that? Our comments should be seen from that perspective.People have taken it differently that Swapo Government is coming in to muzzle the media.That’s not true.Since Swapo came to power, how many journalists were arrested? How many newspapers were closed? Even editors who insulted were not arrested? We just want media to be seen to belong to the same society they wrote about.In Africa, an African reporter who wins an award is the one who demonises Africa and its leaders.In the rest of the world, they report on positive things.It is not that they do not have problems in their society.They respect their society.Why should I read a newspaper in Namibia demonising Africa.When I pick up a newspaper in London it demonises Africa.When I pick up a newspaper in Paris, it demonises Africa.Washington, Brisbane or Sydney it does the same.Yet we must keep quiet.That is the angle of our concern with the media in our country and we are saying something somewhere must be done.So, it is a regulation in the interest of the society.CM: The NSHR has instituted legal proceedings against you after you said anyone who dares touch your national and historical treasure in the person of former President Sam Nujo
ma will see a time bomb explode.Where are we at with the case? EN: Any person in the society has the right to seek legal recourse.It is entirely their right, but I must hasten to add that that implies also we have the same right to take the same legal action against NSHR and against anybody associated therewith.When we do that and which we shall do, media should not cry foul, nor should NSHR cry foul.We are using the same right that is constitutionally availed to every citizen.It is ironic that the same organisation would leave the legal remedy available in Namibia and go outside the country.But now, all of a sudden, they turn to the same local legal system.Why do you go to the ICC (International Criminal Court) if you have confidence in the Namibian legal system? That is ironic to us.Our position remains that no one should drag Comrade Sam Shafiishuna Nujoma, Founding Father of this Republic, Leader of the Namibian Revolution, to any court, not least the ICC.That position still stands.Anybody who contemplates that, for sure, the time bomb will explode.It is common sense.I don’t see why some people can’t see that.If our people live in peace in this country, you don’t tamper with the tranquillity we have.After having enjoyed peace for more than 17 years, now somebody wants to disrupt that.When you challenge that somebody is disrupting peace, they go to court or lay charges.That is really arrogant on the part of NSHR and those who are funding NSHR.It would appear that those who fund it believe in destabilising Namibia.Time bomb is common sense.It is not only me saying this.It will be from all over this country.We are even being laughed at internationally for entertaining such madness.CM: So are you in the process of taking legal action against the NSHR? EN: Just take it as I answered.When we do it as we will, they should not cry foul.They have done that but must not forget that we too deserve the same right.Media should not come and say it is intimidation because we are just using the same legal system.CM: Your answers also seem to indicate that the founding President Nujoma is untouchable.Why must he be above the rest when it comes to answering to the law? EN: Your question implies that somehow I am suggesting that Comrade Nujoma is above the law.CM: That’s how your reaction is viewed.EN: But which law has he broken? They must be specific and say which law he has broken.Our conviction is that he has not broken any law.Any society has their icons.You go to South Africa there is Nelson Mandela, in Zimbabwe Robert Mugabe, George Washington in the US and Kenneth Kaunda in Zambia and Augustinho Neto for Angola.For Namibia, it is Sam Nujoma.For us, it is an icon to preserve.We have gone through so much to reach where we have come.Through bitter and protracted struggle which pitted sister against sister and brother against brother.Blood was spilled.Comrade Nujoma was depicted as an animal but when he came back before Independence, instead of coming with vengeance, he embraced national reconciliation.The whole country accepted what he said.We have gone through this process of nation building and it has been difficult and painful but we laid a solid foundation.We have that now, isn’t it? Now, all of a sudden, somebody comes from nowhere, claiming Namibians have come to him to prosecute Nujoma.Why is he not honest to give the dossier to the media to make it public? Why is he so secretive about it? Moreover the courts are not controlled by Swapo, as people keep saying.This is not an issue of who is above the law.Let there be legitimate things to be said.Not just concocted claims.We are defending what we believe is the right thing to do.Why do you want to disrupt the peace? Many people have said this.It is not that we want him to be above the law.The first signature on the Constitution was his.All these freedoms and democracies were because of him.How then will he be above the law? CM: Back to the youth issues.What is your impression about the progress former youth leaders are making in the party? In other words, do we see enough graduating into senior party leadership positions? EN: It is fair to say that a number of youth leaders managed to get their way through the leadership ranks of the party.There are a number in the Politburo and Central Committee of the party.The same goes for Parliament.So we believe there is progress.While serving the national interest, they should not forget their constituency.We hope for them to be the conduit through which we will implement some of our resolutions.In fact, all our party leaders have the passion of youth at heart.They really understand the concerns and aspirations of the youth.The party leadership is not oblivious to the challenges faced by the youth.The resolutions of the recent Party Congress and the 2004 Swapo Party Election Manifesto, if implemented will go along way to respond to the challenges facing the youth.Therefore we believe that practically, our Government will have to do more to respond meaningfully, not only through talking.We want to be able to see our youth being taken on board on many of the economic generation activities especially in rural areas.I want to see a need for inculcating nationalism and patriotism amongst our youth.We want to see the youth from Rehoboth being taken to go and see the living conditions in Okangwati and those in Okangwati to be taken to go and see what life is in Sibinda.Those in Sibinda must be taken to go and see how life is in Gochas and those there to go to Ompundja.Sometimes when you are just in a specific area, you tend to think that your whole world is coming crumbling down, yet you have access to shoes.At next community they even don’t have a dress to wear.So you begin to appreciate that there is a commonality of problems or a commonality of opportunities.That is also why we have been vocal to advocate the need for many of the youth to participate in the national youth service.I was there recently and saw youth from all 13 regions were there.Of course, I was unable to see the youth from the white community.The parents of that community must begin to understand that the future of the white children in this country is not inseparable.It is inextricably linked to the future of any other young person in this country.It is better that we lay the foundation knowing where we are coming from.It must not be us and them.Some people in Ludwigsdorf only know Katutura on the road to Okahandja.Beyond that, they have never been.It is not what we should encourage.Of course, the perception has been created that the youth league does not like whites.I don’t know why.CM: To wrap it up, where will we see the youth league by the time your term ends? What will the significant changes be? EN: The indicator of where we are going is the resolutions.We want youth in rural areas to have the same access to electricity, water and sanitation and other social amenities as those in urban areas.Many of our leaders including myself we started school under a tree but I think it is our shared expectation that no youth should be taught under a tree in a free and independent Namibia.I don’t think it is impossible.We must work hard and ensure that the inequality in distribution of resources is dealt with while standing in solidarity with the poor and extending social justice to all through to Vision 2030 and beyond.CM: It is now more than two months since you were elected into the new position of SPYL Secretary.What is new under your leadership in the SPYL that young people can look forward to? EN: As you rightly put it our congress was in August which elected me and elected new CC members.Out of the CC we elected a new NEC.At the congress a number of resolutions were taken and these are the resolutions that will guide us for the next five years.While these resolutions are new, what they seek to address are challenges that are not new to the SPYL and the Party.In other words, they are in line with the aims and objectives and political programme of the Swapo Party.But of course we have been given a specific task encapsulated in the resolutions.You would recall that in my acceptance speech I
highlighted some of the expectations of the Namibian youth in accordance with our Congress theme ‘SPYL for Unity, Development and Youth Empowerment’.We believe that youth empowerment is a critical area that requires the support of all, including public- and private-sector entities.It must also be seen and recognised that the majority of the youth live in rural areas and in these areas many social amenities such as water, sanitation and electricity are a luxury.We recognise that a lot has been done since Independence but the challenge remains.In this respect, by bringing these amenities to rural areas you will create employment and thereby the youth can earn a living.These are some of the issues contemplated in our congress resolutions.I must add that we are not unaware that youth as a constituency is not homogeneous.Therefore SPYL, being a youth wing of a mass-based political movement, has a duty and obligation to respond to the needs and aspirations of all our members, supporters and sympathisers.All our youth be they rich, poor, white, black, coloured and speakers of any other language, should be comfortable to approach this office and be heard.It would not be good to be a spectator when you can make an impact through your intervention.If you see SPYL doing certain things that you are not happy with why not come to us.The SPYL leadership is conscious of the fact that humanity is fallible by nature thus we might make mistakes.Therefore our appeal is for the rank and file members, whom we represent, that they must feel free to talk to us and correct us if and when we may have been mistaken in advocating for the full implementation of the ideology, policies and programmes of the SWAPO Party. CM: One of the resolutions you took was to revive the position of Secretary for Education and included the portfolio of young pioneers in that.What exactly do you intend doing about the pioneers? EN: Actually this is not a new position, it has always been there as contemplated in the SPYL constitution.Comrade Clinton Swartbooi is currently the Secretary for Education, Pioneer Movement and Culture.Our collective view as SPYL is that our young people must understand where we are coming from, where we are and where we are going as a society and country.We must welcome an inculcation of cultural values amongst our youth – diverse as these cultural values may be.Such values include respect for elders, respect for human lives, respect for your particular community and respect for the love of your country.These values should not only be for one particular group.We believe they should cut across all races or tribes or linguistic alliances of a given people.As to your question about the Pioneers, first of all the SPYL has three categories of membership.We have individual membership, we have pioneer membership and we have honorary membership.Now what do we mean by pioneer membership? It means a young person from the age of six to before they reach 18.In terms of SPYL they will have their own statute to govern them but report to us.They have their own category of issues.Their aspirations and needs are not the same.In order for us to be seen to be responsive we have to give them space but not too far from broader understanding of the movement namely the sort of ideals and principles that are contemplated in the SPYL and mother body.In this way the pioneers get to be aware of the ideals of the movement right from an early age.Regarding the aspect of education, I agree with you that it is a challenge, which challenge was also recognised and debated at the SPYL congress.We were encouraged that the party congress was also sympathetic to the plight of our students especially when it comes to the question of Grades 10, 11 and 12 dropouts.As you may be aware, the SPYL congress resolved that these students should be allowed to repeat their grades.Fortunately there is a broader consensus on this issue within the Party.We are very aware about the challenges facing our students and we shall continue to work closely with Nanso on this matter.I am aware that our Secretary for Education, Nanso and student leaders from our institutions of higher learning have already started to create conducive platforms to debate and discuss matters of common interest to students of our country.The SPYL took the issue of repeat for Grades 10 and 12 to the party congress and the party is sympathetic and listened to us.In a matter of time, this issue will receive what we believe is a sustainable solution. CM: There is a feeling among the media and even some other Namibians that the SPYL does not believe in freedom of expression as is in the Namibian Constitution.Are they right with such assumptions? Why is it difficult to understand how the SPYL operates? EN: Well, it is an open secret that we don’t necessarily see eye to eye with Misa.You are the chairperson of Misa and there is a perception that the youth league does not believe in freedom of expression.I am not too sure whether Misa and the youth league met once to see where they differ.I think it is a wrong perception to say that the youth league does not believe in freedom of expression.SPYL is a transmitting belt of the Swapo Party ideology, policies and programmes.It is the Swapo Party which is running the Government and in charge of the Constitution.As a wing of that party’s Government we entirely believe in the fundamental rights and freedoms including freedom of the press and expression.If we as a society are frank about looking at these issues, however, there have been incidences where freedom of expression has clearly gone beyond acceptable bounds and we have expressed our opinion.It is unnatural for us to shoot down everything.Even the society knows that and we are just saying that some people are taking it a bit too far.You are aware of the reaction to cartoons published in the Nordic countries about Muhammad.What has happened? Wasn’t there a huge public outcry? Now, how many cartoons are published here in your newspaper? The least we were able to say was to condemn it.Condemning it is seen as we don’t accept freedom of expression.In the US, there are cases where somebody who is said to have leaked certain classified information is in jail.Does that now say that the US does not believe in freedom of expression? I think they do believe in freedom of expression with limits, it is just that there must be boundaries and limits to this freedoms.So it is not right to say that the youth league does not respect freedom of expression.We do, we do, we believe it is being abused and I think that abuse is sometimes deliberate.Maybe, people don’t understand how the youth league operates.We also get the impression that most in the media have never perused our documents.Therefore, when we act within those boundaries, it seems foreign to the people in the media.I think that as members of the same society it is not helpful to live on perceptions.If there is something I don’t agree with you, I call you to say it.And I call you some other days to say that you have done better here.It’s because I believe that if we in the youth league have done something wrong you must contact us instead of forming a perception on us.We are approachable.You came here and there were no dogs or an electric fence.If we do not seem receptive to any suggestion, it is a different issue.But if we are accessible, you can talk to us. Most of the perceptions about the youth are wrong perceptions and people are deliberately distorting things and rubbishing the youth without even talking to the youth.We have a strong and capable SPYL leadership both at the national and regional level.All those cadres are there and accessible.I don’t believe people talk to them.When your newspaper publishes certain things, you cannot be judged purely on one article.You can not just formulate a whole view of The Namibian on what appeared in one article, in the same way don’t judge us purely on one article or comment we have made, but look at us holistically.CM: So all assumptions like someone in Swapo putting words in your mouths to make you appear totally foolish are wrong? Recent example was w
hen you came up with the term ‘guided democracy’ which was basically seen as a rejection of the nomination of new candidates at the party’s congress.How independent is your thinking in the SPYL? EN: You were there at the press conference when I was presenting the outcome of the SPYL central committee meeting.People tend to underestimate and slightly insult our intelligence in the sense that we the youth cannot think for ourselves and, at all times, somebody is whispering in our ears.Of course, we are a wing of the party.Nothing stops the party from directing us.That is the normal way of running parties.That’s the way it should be.But we should not go as far as doing away with the constitution we need to follow.Whatever we do we can’t do it outside the bounds of our constitution.This is what we mean with guided democracy.We stated our reasons why we preferred the term ‘guided democracy’.People should focus on our reasons, not to speculate or concoct what or who could have whispered in our ears.The people know what happened in 2004 (Swapo extraordinary congress).Others have heralded this as the best.In our view the aftermath of the 2004 extraordinary congress insofar as it entrenched divisions within the movement: it was wrong and not in the interest of the movement.Thus we have reason to be cautious with the future and that it not be repeated.After all, when the year 2030 comes it is going to be the youth that will face the challenges of that time.Why do we start antagonising that future if we can prevent it? It is better when we have an orderly way of doing things.Some people, I know, have said that well when we talk about guided democracy, implicitly we mean others should not come in.Anybody can come in.Members of the Central Committee and members of the Politburo are all leaders of the same party.All we asked was that all democratic modes be exhausted within the Central Committee and Politburo.Everybody (from the leadership) is in those bodies, they would be able to see whether we are going the right way.Is antagonism the right way forward? Now, whether or not it was done is a different issue.People should be able to openly agree and disagree but follow the constitution.We said ideally we wanted four names to emerge from this internal democratic process which means there is going to be a vote within there.Based on your qualities people can vote for anybody there.It is a mistake for people to presume that democracy can only prevail outside those structures and not inside those structures.I don’t think so.I think it’s a mistake.If you lost through those structures, the constitution tells you to adhere to the decision of the majority.It becomes a collective decision.We commend and congratulate our Party leadership for having listened to us.Of course, we came out with three names from those structures.We are overly satisfied.It is not that somebody was whispering in our ears as some people were suggesting.The youth leadership is mature, people who are able to formulate opinions and analyse issues within the confines of the constitution of the party and the political programme.We even asked people to come and debate the issue of guided democracy but not many came.We are open to engage in whatever debate, but people should also be conscious of the fact that we have a movement to run and the expectations of our members should not be wished away.CM: There seems to be a trend of more control over State media and less transparency on what the future holds for the media in Namibia.Even the youth league is seen as one of those who want the media to serve as the voice of the ruling party.Would you agree with that? EN: Again there is another misconception that you colleagues in the media are directing to the youth league.Yes, we have called repeatedly for the regulation of the media.But if people are fair, we did not just make the calls out of the blue.There were certain specific instances but normally reports only take certain parts of our statements.We have said it is an international practice that the media is regulated.Everybody is calling for the regulation of water saying prices are too high, transport cost is too high but what’s so special about the media.Why is media a no-go area? Should we take it that the media in our country should be a sort of holy cow? Whatever it does, whether it insults, should it be taken as fine? If you follow the trend that was going on in this country some years ago Unita bandits were causing untold misery to the people in the northern regions.It seemed as though the media was siding with Unita.In this case where we expected to applaud the media, I think not! With our participation in the DRC, the media behaved as if Namibia is not their State.Whatever the media is writing in this country is part and parcel of Namibia and it must be in the interest of the country.When America invaded Iraq, there were embedded journalists.Why were they embedded? Was it in the interest of dissidents or was it in the interest of the invading power? Why can we in this country not talk about a patriotic media? When I look at you and you look at me, are we not citizens of the same country? Is the work of the media not to objectively inform and educate and maybe entertain? But sometimes the media has gone overboard. We have than been of the view that the standard practice over the world is to regulate the media.We should not be an island out of the global community.Is media regulation in the world a taboo? It is not that we want less transparency or we want mouthpieces of the State.No.Let us be seen to be projecting a view that is commensurate with the country you love.Not as if you are hating this country while you are here.Why is it that somebody is persistently putting petrol on fire? Why is it like that? Our comments should be seen from that perspective.People have taken it differently that Swapo Government is coming in to muzzle the media.That’s not true.Since Swapo came to power, how many journalists were arrested? How many newspapers were closed? Even editors who insulted were not arrested? We just want media to be seen to belong to the same society they wrote about.In Africa, an African reporter who wins an award is the one who demonises Africa and its leaders.In the rest of the world, they report on positive things.It is not that they do not have problems in their society.They respect their society.Why should I read a newspaper in Namibia demonising Africa.When I pick up a newspaper in London it demonises Africa.When I pick up a newspaper in Paris, it demonises Africa.Washington, Brisbane or Sydney it does the same.Yet we must keep quiet.That is the angle of our concern with the media in our country and we are saying something somewhere must be done.So, it is a regulation in the interest of the society.CM: The NSHR has instituted legal proceedings against you after you said anyone who dares touch your national and historical treasure in the person of former President Sam Nujoma will see a time bomb explode.Where are we at with the case? EN: Any person in the society has the right to seek legal recourse.It is entirely their right, but I must hasten to add that that implies also we have the same right to take the same legal action against NSHR and against anybody associated therewith.When we do that and which we shall do, media should not cry foul, nor should NSHR cry foul.We are using the same right that is constitutionally availed to every citizen.It is ironic that the same organisation would leave the legal remedy available in Namibia and go outside the country.But now, all of a sudden, they turn to the same local legal system.Why do you go to the ICC (International Criminal Court) if you have confidence in the Namibian legal system? That is ironic to us.Our position remains that no one should drag Comrade Sam Shafiishuna Nujoma, Founding Father of this Republic, Leader of the Namibian Revolution, to any court, not least the ICC.That position still stands.Anybody who contemplates that, for sure, the time bomb will explode.It is common sense.I don’t see why some people can’t see that.If our people live in peace in this country
, you don’t tamper with the tranquillity we have.After having enjoyed peace for more than 17 years, now somebody wants to disrupt that.When you challenge that somebody is disrupting peace, they go to court or lay charges.That is really arrogant on the part of NSHR and those who are funding NSHR.It would appear that those who fund it believe in destabilising Namibia.Time bomb is common sense.It is not only me saying this.It will be from all over this country.We are even being laughed at internationally for entertaining such madness.CM: So are you in the process of taking legal action against the NSHR? EN: Just take it as I answered.When we do it as we will, they should not cry foul.They have done that but must not forget that we too deserve the same right.Media should not come and say it is intimidation because we are just using the same legal system.CM: Your answers also seem to indicate that the founding President Nujoma is untouchable.Why must he be above the rest when it comes to answering to the law? EN: Your question implies that somehow I am suggesting that Comrade Nujoma is above the law.CM: That’s how your reaction is viewed.EN: But which law has he broken? They must be specific and say which law he has broken.Our conviction is that he has not broken any law.Any society has their icons.You go to South Africa there is Nelson Mandela, in Zimbabwe Robert Mugabe, George Washington in the US and Kenneth Kaunda in Zambia and Augustinho Neto for Angola.For Namibia, it is Sam Nujoma.For us, it is an icon to preserve.We have gone through so much to reach where we have come.Through bitter and protracted struggle which pitted sister against sister and brother against brother.Blood was spilled.Comrade Nujoma was depicted as an animal but when he came back before Independence, instead of coming with vengeance, he embraced national reconciliation.The whole country accepted what he said.We have gone through this process of nation building and it has been difficult and painful but we laid a solid foundation.We have that now, isn’t it? Now, all of a sudden, somebody comes from nowhere, claiming Namibians have come to him to prosecute Nujoma.Why is he not honest to give the dossier to the media to make it public? Why is he so secretive about it? Moreover the courts are not controlled by Swapo, as people keep saying.This is not an issue of who is above the law.Let there be legitimate things to be said.Not just concocted claims.We are defending what we believe is the right thing to do.Why do you want to disrupt the peace? Many people have said this.It is not that we want him to be above the law.The first signature on the Constitution was his.All these freedoms and democracies were because of him.How then will he be above the law? CM: Back to the youth issues.What is your impression about the progress former youth leaders are making in the party? In other words, do we see enough graduating into senior party leadership positions? EN: It is fair to say that a number of youth leaders managed to get their way through the leadership ranks of the party.There are a number in the Politburo and Central Committee of the party.The same goes for Parliament.So we believe there is progress.While serving the national interest, they should not forget their constituency.We hope for them to be the conduit through which we will implement some of our resolutions.In fact, all our party leaders have the passion of youth at heart.They really understand the concerns and aspirations of the youth.The party leadership is not oblivious to the challenges faced by the youth.The resolutions of the recent Party Congress and the 2004 Swapo Party Election Manifesto, if implemented will go along way to respond to the challenges facing the youth.Therefore we believe that practically, our Government will have to do more to respond meaningfully, not only through talking.We want to be able to see our youth being taken on board on many of the economic generation activities especially in rural areas.I want to see a need for inculcating nationalism and patriotism amongst our youth.We want to see the youth from Rehoboth being taken to go and see the living conditions in Okangwati and those in Okangwati to be taken to go and see what life is in Sibinda.Those in Sibinda must be taken to go and see how life is in Gochas and those there to go to Ompundja.Sometimes when you are just in a specific area, you tend to think that your whole world is coming crumbling down, yet you have access to shoes.At next community they even don’t have a dress to wear.So you begin to appreciate that there is a commonality of problems or a commonality of opportunities.That is also why we have been vocal to advocate the need for many of the youth to participate in the national youth service.I was there recently and saw youth from all 13 regions were there.Of course, I was unable to see the youth from the white community.The parents of that community must begin to understand that the future of the white children in this country is not inseparable.It is inextricably linked to the future of any other young person in this country.It is better that we lay the foundation knowing where we are coming from.It must not be us and them.Some people in Ludwigsdorf only know Katutura on the road to Okahandja.Beyond that, they have never been.It is not what we should encourage.Of course, the perception has been created that the youth league does not like whites.I don’t know why.CM: To wrap it up, where will we see the youth league by the time your term ends? What will the significant changes be? EN: The indicator of where we are going is the resolutions.We want youth in rural areas to have the same access to electricity, water and sanitation and other social amenities as those in urban areas.Many of our leaders including myself we started school under a tree but I think it is our shared expectation that no youth should be taught under a tree in a free and independent Namibia.I don’t think it is impossible.We must work hard and ensure that the inequality in distribution of resources is dealt with while standing in solidarity with the poor and extending social justice to all through to Vision 2030 and beyond.