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tjommie
Nortin
Topic creator
registered since: 09.12.2008
Posts: 1
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First of all.....Kool az IZE "The Namibian" website...well done....!!!
So...let's get going immediately with some solid debate....
Just wanted to say congratulations and "MIGHTY RESPECT" to our African leaders, in particular Thabo Mbeki, and all his SADC heads of state for the wonderful "African Solution" to "the African problem" in Zimbabwe. Cholera has broken out, people are dying at a faster rate now....what a solution....
Anyway, does anyone know if this "African Problem" has been clearly defined from the start? We all could have guessed that Mugabe is the problem....but I am confused as to what "the African Problem" is...? 
If "a problem" has this type of solution, I wonder how "a crisis" will be solved..... 
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lamek1990
lamek
registered since: 19.01.2009
Posts: 2
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I guess i just don't get you wrong! Are you sure you mean Mugabe is a problem.
If that is what you mean, just think again. i really thank our states for helping in Zimbambwe durring the outbreak of "corrella".
And i would say thank you to our leaders for being solid enough, for not being vibrated by the western wind which is try to blow back in Africa. Durring the "corrella" outbreak in zimbambwe all they were priching here in Britain for example it to go to war with zimbambwe.
If you really mean Mr Mungabe is a problem, have you ever heared of any suffering of any one in Zibambe before the so called MDC start its foolishness in SADC? If you so called colonial masters were a sollotion to a zimbambe crises would they sponsed the war in Somalia in 1992 and fund the Rwandan genoside in 1994?
Would you really allow the western to involve in any african staff while they are still funding the death of an african child in Sudan and fund war in Central African Republic? Would you work with an evil man who kill people in IRAQ and Afganistan Based on the religion and skin caller?
Are you telling me really that what you hear the westen priching is what you see? Are you still thing of working together with a guy who were trying to wipe out the Southern African People because of thier skin color and for thier economical benefits which include Namibians even?
I personally Thank our heads of states esperially those who led the Libaration parties through the sisery of the westen occupation and their soldures who got the job done with not even a cent of pay.
With out this guys I would have been killed by those who never wanted to see a black person "they call us" we African.
The Zimbamben econnomy has been pulled down delibaratly to scare coweds like you, just as the did to the Angolan and Cuban money in libaration years.
I would first in the list: The cuban, Mr Edward Dosanos and Mugambe and all other african leader who cames then after this guys. We (or I) will follow thier lead nometer the weather.
Together as Africans we can do it. Do not expect it to be done in a day.
My God help us through all we have to go through.
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gjensen
Gerard Jensen
registered since: 02.01.2009
Posts: 39
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lamek1990 wrote:
I guess i just don't get you wrong! Are you sure you mean Mugabe is a problem.
If that is what you mean, just think again. i really thank our states for helping in Zimbambwe durring the outbreak of "corrella".
Indeed, Mugabe is a problem - not so much because he clings onto power as long as he possibly can (we've got lots of similar "experts" doing the same in other countries as well), but because he lives in a constant state of denial - together with just about the entire rest of his government.
A "cholera breakout" is usually linked to a natural disaster (tsunamies, earthquakes, heavy storms - anything that damages an existing water supply and waste water cleaning infrastructure) - in Zim, that is a man made problem: as is usual with this type of government, they first simply ignored the problem of a loss of infrastructure due to planned sabotage or just blissfull ignorance, then they declared that there is no such problem (denial), and when the first cholera cases resulted, they still did not react.
To now suggest that it was just the souther African countries that support Zim in that health crisis is however complete hogwash - UNICEF, IOM, OXFAM-GB, Medecins du Monde, ICRC, ACF, MSFSpain - Holland & Luxemburg, Plan International, GOAL, Save the Children-UK and others together with the WHO and of course the very much cash strapped ZIMWA have actually been quick to respond.
The problem here: the cholera was already there when they got a chance to react. Preventing the outbreak right from the start is what should have happened - and that obviously is something the Zim government is responsible for, but aparently they have severe problems in managing their sh*t not only when it comes to sewage systems leaking into fresh water resources.
lamek1990 wrote:
And i would say thank you to our leaders for being solid enough, for not being vibrated by the western wind which is try to blow back in Africa. Durring the "corrella" outbreak in zimbambwe all they were priching here in Britain for example it to go to war with zimbambwe.
Hogwash. Namibia "reacted" after nearly 500 deaths, somewhere in December last year. Mugabe himself then declared that the outbreak would be "over" - clear case of denial of the facts, outlined as such by Mark Malloch-Brown (Britains Africa Minister). Mugabe actually went as far as denying French medical staff visas to "his" country, effectively blocking humanitarian support by government decree.
Oxfam (a British NGO) was there all along (they are working inside of Zim already since 1980, so this comes as no surprise), supplying people in Zim with absolute essential equipment to aid sanitation (including extremely simple things like distributing soap an jerry cans to transport safe potable water - something even the Zim government could have easily provided, yet didn't, since they still live in complete denial).
The actual threat to send forces to Zim stems from the fact that Mugabe himself denies that there is a "cholera problem" (it's actually a full blown epidemic outbreak that needs immediate action, not stupid political debate and deliberate sabotage of organisations that want to help by throwing useless admin red tape at them - but tell that to ZANU-PF people, and you're declared a "racist" or "colonialist" or whatever other insults they can conjure up to hide their own idiotic behaviour from the public) - and now you put this, as if they first thought of war and only now think about bringin aid to the people.
Get this: Mugabe *DENIES* that the cholera outbreak is virtually uncontrollable, while at the very same time the WHO (which already warned of a "worst case scenario" in December, estimating that a full 60000 cases of infection could be reached by March this year) has to amend its gory predictions, as the figure now officially stands already at 53306 - at the end of January, that is!
Just to put that in perspective: Mugabe states, there is no cholera - and at the same time he states this, more people have died in Zim due to cholera than have died within the *ENTIRE AFRICAN CONTINENT* each year over the last couple of years (2001: 2590, 2003: 1884, 2004: 2331 and 2005: 2230 - Zim has already got a death toll of 2872).
lamek1990 wrote:
If you really mean Mr Mungabe is a problem, have you ever heared of any suffering of any one in Zibambe before the so called MDC start its foolishness in SADC? If you so called colonial masters were a sollotion to a zimbambe crises would they sponsed the war in Somalia in 1992 and fund the Rwandan genoside in 1994?
Have you ever read any newspaper since 2000? Within these last 8 years (actually the problem already began, when Britain stopped financing the "willing buyer, willing seller" land reform program in 1997, noting there and then, that actually all the money spent only benefitted members of the rulling elite, but *NOT* the intended beneficiaries - namely the "common man" in Zim), Mugabe and his cohorts have used brutal force, blind violence actually, against anyone that they thought they would have to "punish" for their own failures.
That violence erupted, after a public referendum was held in February 2000, asking the people of Zimbabwe, if they would agree to certain amendments to the constitution - a notion that was brought forward by the ZANU-PF (and not the MDC), and which failed with 55% of the participants voting "no" on it.
The MDC by contrast only confronted Mugabe in 2002 in presidential elections - and since then, they have been *VICTIMS* of ZANU-PF incited violence, not the cause of it.
You put historic events back to front and turn reasoning right on its head and think anyone would subscribe to your nonsense?
As I said: complete and utter hogwash.
lamek1990 wrote:
Would you really allow the western to involve in any african staff while they are still funding the death of an african child in Sudan and fund war in Central African Republic? Would you work with an evil man who kill people in IRAQ and Afganistan Based on the religion and skin caller?
Again hogwash. It's well known, that Eritrea and the Chad are fuelling the rebel forces in Sudan. It is an ethnic and tribal war that takes place there, not a foreign funded one. At the same time, the Central African Republic Bush War has erupted when François Bozizé seized power over the CAR in 2003 - with rebels fighting him that stem from Dafur, in neighbouring Sudan. To date, Bozizé is elected (!) president of that country, so obviously the people of the CAR support him. And while the country itself can onbviously not sustain itself without foreign aid, the rebel attacks stem from the same folks that fuel the Darfur crisis in Sudan.
By April 13, 2007, a peace agreement was reached between the rebel faction and current government of the CAR, and by 2009 we have a unity government in place there with local elections scheduled for this year and presidential elections in 2010, so what are you talking about currently funding a war in the CAR right now?
And in Iraq and Afghanistan it's al-Quaeda and Arab Sunnis that declared their fight to be religiously motivated (how else could you possibly call a Jihad or "holy war" - proclaimed obviously not by coalition forces fighting there).
Once again, you turn facts upside down - and aparently you think you can get away with that kind of warped argumentation.
Fact is: Mugabe tries to deny foreign aid workers to enter "his" country simply because it would immediately become glaringly evident as to what sorry state he has managed to run down that country within the last couple of years. He managed to silence most of the press in the meantime, so these "foreigners" which would enter the country equipped most likely with the latest of communication technology, sending pictures and live reports of the chaos there to the rest of the world at an instant.
No holy war, no fear of foreign funding of rebels within the country - just plain and simple a rather hapless attempt to prevent Mugabe and his ZANU-PF from being caught with his pants down in public. You can't even call it "greed" any more, as Zim currently has few to none resources that greed could possibly grab hold of - it's only just a last minute attempt to save his face.
The bitter irony: just because he doesn't want to be caught red-faced, thousands of Zimbabweans die of cholera.
What kind of motivation is that when compared to the motivation behind forces fighting elsewhere in the world? Sure, their motivation isn't exactly bright logic either (you can't "fight" to "save" - no matter what you construct as an "argument" around it), but at least one could manage to understand their motivation (while still not condoning it).
Mugabe however is trying to save his personal pride. F*ck the rest, let them die, if need be.
Great "leadah" indeed...
lamek1990 wrote:
Are you telling me really that what you hear the westen priching is what you see? Are you still thing of working together with a guy who were trying to wipe out the Southern African People because of thier skin color and for thier economical benefits which include Namibians even?
Do you honestly think that you can get by in this world without joining forces with those countries that have the biggest economies (and with that: cash available) to support you?
Instead you obviously bank on a group of people that blast away anthing that gets in their way - as if that would be the great panacea to the problems in the world: if things don't work, wrap an explosive vest around yourself and blast yourself into oblivion, including all those around you.
Not exactly what I would call "forward thinking"...
lamek1990 wrote:
I personally Thank our heads of states esperially those who led the Libaration parties through the sisery of the westen occupation and their soldures who got the job done with not even a cent of pay.
With out this guys I would have been killed by those who never wanted to see a black person "they call us" we African.
Which explains of course, why you sit in Britain writing these lines, instead of helping your community to curb the problems you so wisely left behind so as to live a better life... jeez, I'm getting too sarcastic when reading your nonsense...
You were, in all likelyhood, not even yet born, when colonialism ended in Africa. Since the colonial era ended, Africa had more than 70 coups, 13 presidential assasinations, loads of border disputes and massive military conflicts, of which the biggest (the second Congo war) up to date chalked up a death toll of more than 5.4 million people.
Count yourself lucky that your own kin didn't kill you - something that still happens up to this date for example in Zimbabwe.
lamek1990 wrote:
The Zimbamben econnomy has been pulled down delibaratly to scare coweds like you, just as the did to the Angolan and Cuban money in libaration years.
I would first in the list: The cuban, Mr Edward Dosanos and Mugambe and all other african leader who cames then after this guys. We (or I) will follow thier lead nometer the weather.
Together as Africans we can do it. Do not expect it to be done in a day.
My God help us through all we have to go through.
The Zimbabwean economy has been ruined by a political despot that lacks just about any sense of reality by now - Robert Mugabe himself. For years on end, he has been rulling Zimbabwe by abusing foreign aid for his own personal pleasure, leaving the rest of the country to fend for their own.
When that foreign financial support finally ended, the economy of that country simply folded - a clear reminder, that quite obviously he has never in all these years managed to get Zimbabwe up to a point where they could at the very least sustain themselves. No other country in this world currently sports a higher inflation rate - only to be rivalled by the highest cholera death toll in the very same country.
Cholera is a very brutal indicator of a region or country not being able to maintain even the most basic of needs - as said before, that's usually caused by large scale natural disasters.
The disaster in Zimbabwe has a name: Robert Gabriel Mugabe.
Do whatever you wish to do - but if you follow that "leadah" any further, you are bound to head for a death trap. Not that we didn't warn you though...
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pjh
Peter Hardy
registered since: 11.02.2009
Posts: 1
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Gerard it has been a long time since I logged onto the Namibian and their sponsored forums and it was just by chance that I decided to have a looksee. Well I can tell you NOTHING has changed it appears. While previously there was Kenneth and Ketti etc preaching utter nonsense and the good doctor from Nigeria trying his best to get these critters to see logic, you now have Mr Lamek. However it is still a great world when people can take the opportunity to stand on a soapbox and have their say.
Mr lamek obviously only looks at page three of his newspaper which is fine provided he doesn't involved himself in meaningful debate but I do not want to insult the man.
President Robert Mugabe is a criminal that knows he will be in very deep hot water one day and that is why he will never relinquish overall power in Zim. Let us hope the people of that wonderful country see justice done soon. Peter Hardy
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Gecko
Hendrik
registered since: 12.02.2009
Posts: 33
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What is the whole argument, if there are still some people who will believe the lies and bulls#!^ of politicians in general. So be it, we will still be a select few who see it and it is the minority who has the power to change the outcome of any argument.
"We are bound, you, I, and every one to make common cause, even with error itself, to maintain the common right of freedom of conscience."
Thomas Jefferson to Edward Dowse, 1803.
Even the old ones had a bit more savvy. Savvy? 
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TheSandcat
Mike
registered since: 23.04.2009
Posts: 8
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Brother lamek, take a course in English! I QUOTE: Dosanos,Mugambe,skin caller, priching , sisery ,soldures,Zibambe???????????? Were you smoking green stuff or what?
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samawosolu
aiyekoto
registered since: 22.06.2009
Posts: 1
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How time flies been on these columns some while back. in truth , i am so disappointed at the level of vomit that still expels from some of the posts on it.
It just goes to show that failure cannot be hidden. Our leaders have failed on all fronts. The blame game which hitherto has worked albeit only as a temporary emotive measure no longer works.
Who they going to blame when the ones they blame eventually let be?. The problem meanwhile remains...then what? The people realise they have been taken for a ride.
The danger of the agreement at legitimising evil and corruption with agreements that often are not worth the thought they were made of, not to talk of the paper they are written and signed on is that it leads us down a tract.
What is that tract?
The tract where we admit wrong is wrong but we want an easy way out and do not really address the issue so we try to compromise. To compromise one should I believe stand on the side of Justice, What Justice is there when the will of the people are not taken into consideration, we have a funny situation here....Kenya election masssively rigged and the people responded come in Kofi Annan... Some funny unity government in Kenya and everything seems to be ok? or is it? Prime minister still has his own body gaurds who are not recognised by the government, the atmosphere is very very tense to stay the least....So the big question next election what happens the precedent has been set. It is ok to rig and ignore the mandate of the people and then there will be mediation and then there will be unity government , vicious cycle and perpetually evil wins.
Lets fast forward to Zimbabwe, then evry single agreement that was made has been torn to shreds with back handers, the tokenism from south africa is due to self centred interest of the trade union buddies zuma and tswangirai....What does that solve/
Fat forward to sudan a similar case is brewing , have we found a situation whereby our leaders have been so quiet to all these eye sore kind of occurence?
Is it because it is black people humiliating fellow black people hence we try to cover the evil.. Let us say same has been done by that GREAT SATAN the white european or the easiest culprit on everyones tongeu AMERICA, this is not to say that every single of the pople that chant anti american slogan will not hesitate to be given a green card , what then will we say RACISM.
Africans wake up , slavery started with the Arab people, that continues in north africa , mauritania and a few of the maghreb countries, Yet it takes these great satan to make anything reasonable on the continent...Seirra leone, Liberia , even the darfur tragedy in sudan , African leaders welcome bashir and they waited until Colin Powell stated it was genocide to bow and cower in a corner...If that eyesore called sudan was in europe or north america there will have been condemnation today.
We must arise above sentiment call a spade a spade , admit failures where we fail seek and acknowledge the truth or else we become and are truly the dark continent because bad things only happen in the dark no good thing happens in the dark.
George Bush as he is so well malaigned is a saint compared to our leaders from desert to cape, you have lunatics running our continent and betraying our people , leaders involved in sorcery, hatred , fanning embers of disunity and making their oaths worthless.
We have to admit we are a continent in need of help , there is no shame to admit it and to receive and to learn. We better learn in geometric and rather than arithmetric progression 
Enough said , the rhetorics have given our people nothing , why support a bunch of leaders so when the memoirs of G W Bush is written in 10 years we will see whilst it is an administration ridden with flaws there are so many he got wrong especailly for us Africans , he would have had the last laugh. Ask Charled taylor, Idris derbi, Mugabe,the vandals in somalia,the colonel in libya who had sponsored so much wars in west africa seeing the folly of his ways, people like yasser arafat, exposed after death sorry had to say that. I will make some other contributions soon.
Comrades who vomit rubbish can never find legitimacy anymore ask the mullahs in iraq, is it the us, and europe shooting their people on the street?
They are running out of targets to blame as the blames were poitless from onset so they now lack credence and legitimacy.
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African solutions to African problems
