Head to head with Hidipo
Two of the Swapo Party's presidential candidates, Foreign Affairs Minister Hidipo Hamutenya and Lands Minister Hifikepunye Pohamba, have not yet responded to a list of set questions sent to all three candidates. However, Minister Hamutenya last week agreed to be interviewed by The Namibian's TANGENI AMUPADHI ...
Interviewer: Thanks for the time ...
HH: Nahas was saying that even if it's only for the expansion of
his CV, it's still all right.
'If I don't make it, I can always say I have been a candidate
for the Presidency.'
Q: Congratulations.
Did you expect to be nominated?
HH: I wasn't sure, but it happened.
Some people asked me that if I agree that they would nominate
me.
I said fine, so they went ahead and did that.
Q: Many people believe, me included, and I see New Era has
written it, that you have been campaigning to be president for the
past 40 years.
I wouldn't take it as far but many people ...
HH: They had it wrong.
I want to correct the New Era report.
I was on tape [and] anyone who saw my interview will know that
New Era twisted the story.
I said that I have been in the leadership of the organisation
for more than 40 years, and that, as a question of campaigning, all
those who followed my story will know that I'm part of the
leadership, [and] that I was nominated shouldn't surprise
anybody.
That's all I said.
In essence I said that.
But New Era said I have been campaigning for 40 years, not only
for the presidency, instead of saying I said I was campaigning,
[but] not for president, but to be part of the leadership.
Q: Many of us believe you have been campaigning behind the
scenes at least for the past few years, are we correct about
this?
HH: No you are not correct.
The people assumed that I was, but I don't think anybody has
evidence that I was.
Q: Well, when President Nujoma made a statement at the Central
Committee meeting that there were - I think this is what he said -
people campaigning and it could be divisive for the party, again we
assume it was you and former Prime Minister Hage Geingob.
What would you say about that?
HH: That was your assumption [chuckle].
But truly speaking, I was not campaigning.
Q: How strongly did you believe, or expect, to be nominated?
HH: Well, I knew it depended on others.
It was not up to me.
If I was to say I want to be president and project myself that
way, then I would probably have known better, but others said we'll
ask you to stand.
It was in their hands.
Q: Your admirers and detractors alike have used these terms - an
astute politician, shrewd, cunning - to characterise you.
What do you say about this characterisation?
HH: Well, I don't know that I'm shrewd.
I don't think I'm cunning.
They probably need to explain what they mean by all that.
When you are in a public position as I am, people will have all
sorts of perceptions about you and you have no control over what
they say about you.
So, I don't know what they are talking about, being shrewd,
being .... whatever they are saying, I'm not sure.
Q: You say that when you are in the public domain,people form
perceptions about you.
I think one of the perceptions one will often hear about
Minister Hamutenya is a sense of fear among people.
Sometimes it is not really articulated ... Has this reached you
that there is a sense of fear among some people?
Why do people fear you?
HH: Yes, I have heard about that.
I think that people fear me because they don't know me, because
they have not come close enough to me - apparently they have that
fear.
I do not know what's the cause of it.
One of the reasons is that I tend to be economic with what I
say, with whom I speak, and people think that I have a lot of
things to hide, so that behind this lack of outspokenness is
probably [some] evil intention.
I don't know.
But I think all those who come closer to me and have come to
know me, will not have that perception.
Some do admit that 'we did not know you but, apparently, what
people say about you is not really what you are'.
Q: Could this perhaps have been fuelled by ... around 1989,
people who were detained by Swapo have accused you personally and
other people of having been among the architects of this so-called
Swapo spy drama.
I don't know if I ever heard you comment about those
accusations.
HH: Because I have never been accused directly.
It was just talk up in the air.
Nobody has ever said 'you were responsible' because if somebody
was to do that, it's a lot of [inaudible] to give me how he or she
knows that and what evidence they can produce, and I can tell you
that if anybody is saying I was instrumental in his or her
detention, that person had to be a liar.
And there were more than 40 000 Namibians in exile.
I think they know the story better than some people in the
country.
Of course I was part of the leadership of Swapo.
Like anybody else who was in the leadership, one cannot
exonerate him- or herself from what was happening in Swapo.
Q: Could that kind of talk be [happening] among those that fuel
the suspicion about you?
How do you hope to get the message across that 'you guys are
wrong about me?'
HH: Quite frankly, I don't see myself duty bound to explain
because I have not played any role different from that of anybody
else who was in the leadership.
And I know that we were not hiding in some corner, we were up
there in defence of thousands of Namibians.
I think they know the story better.
You'll be hard put to find anyone to clearly state that Hidipo
was the architect of the defence of the revolution and he has gone
to excesses in doing a, b, c, y or z.
I don't think you can find anybody who can sincerely and
honestly say that and be able to justify the statement.
Q: Another issue is that you say you are not afraid to take
risks.
There have been a few projects that you tried to undertake that
didn't take off.
They landed you in quite a lot of controversy, Pidico
notably.
One could mention the Development Brigade [Corporation], a
N$10-million dollar Italian pipe manufacturing project in Walvis
Bay.
Now we are told Barden International is not doing so well and
you are also being mentioned as having been instrumental in
bringing them to Namibia, or may be not instrumental, but having
presided as trade minister.
How would you respond to this perception that you seem to like
courting controversy.
HH: Pidico, Italian and what?
Well, Pidico was a venture of businesspeople who wanted to come
here.
I did not invest a cent.
I did not have any shares in it.
Now, if a businessman comes here and he says he wants to put up
a business, and he says I want you to help me to identify a place,
not I as an individual, but the Ministry of Trade and Industry was
charged with that.
How would I refuse and say 'no, I know you are going to
fail.
Therefore, I would not recommend that you be given land'.
Pidico was an agricultural project.
When they came here first, they were dealing with the Ministry
of Agriculture and I know that they had a project in
Mozambique.
The Ministry of Agriculture sent a deputy minister and a deputy
permanent secretary to Mozambique to look at those projects.
They came.
They gave a report, a favourable report, saying that 'yes, the
company could be considered as a viable company'.
So it went.
When they came they wanted land.
We said sure, why not.
We looked at Kavango, I mean Caprivi and Kavango and finally we
settled for Lake Liambezi as a place [where they could do
business].
And they landed 15 tractors in Grootfontein.
The tractors were shipped to Caprivi.
Then the quarrel about who owns the tribal land is how the thing
was torpedoed.
That [inaudible] Coetzee and others jumped on it and said what
they wanted to say ... One group in Caprivi agreed to it, and one
opposed it later and then the media storm.
So with the media storm, the people who were behind Pidico said
their arrangement, the credit lines they had arranged
internationally could not get off the ground.
Q: How did it end up with you?
Anybody who talks about Pidico here will forget about
agriculture.
HH: It's the question.
And all those tractors were confiscated by the Ministry of
Agriculture.
Tractors, 15 of them, were all left and picked up by the
Agriculture Ministry.
They said that, okay; the import tax was not paid so they were
going to confiscate all of them.
I think up to now, they still have them; I don't know where they
are.
Yet you would want me to be responsible.
That was the time of the [late] Minister [Gert] Hanekom.
So that's that.
The Italian - I'd say was with the NDC (Namibia Development
Corporation).
The NDC is a company, which was very much independent, was not
getting directives from the Ministry of Trade and Industry.
They pick and choose.
They hire qualified professionals who evaluate projects.
Not the Ministry.
They don't need an okay from the Ministry to proceed with any
project.
And I do know that the MD of the NDC at that time, Issy Namaseb,
did travel to Italy to see whether they were indeed producing the
pipes that they said they were producing.
He went, he came up with the report and he said 'yes, they are'
and [they] have the equipment they wanted to bring here.
The only ["mistake"] that I committed was that I was head of the
Ministry of Trade and Industry under which the NDC falls.
Professional men and women were in charge of NDC.
They made a decision.
They travelled to Italy; I didn't travel to Italy, just like I
did not travel to Mozambique.
I cannot be responsible for that kind of decision.
Q: On this one, I'm sure you remember the time when Amcom was
closed down The MD of Amcom, Mr Siyambango, was saying you did
indeed personally recommend or push the hand of the NDC to advance
the loan.
HH: The only person who could say that is the MD of the NDC,
Issy Namaseb... Of course, if the deal is not viable, and you want
to be a professional, you would say no.
So, it's a lie.
But anyway, Siyambango was saying so many things ... because he
didn't want Amcom to be liquidated.
This is one ...
Now the DBC - it was a Government project.
I was not managing it.
I was a Government minister; I chaired the committee that was
dealing with it.
The committee was made up of several ministers.
The problem with the DBC, I think, needs to be understood.
We were trying to turn ex-combatants into people who are
productive and also possibly businessmen and women.
That's not Hidipo, it's the Government.
People were experienced in fighting, how to carry guns and how
to shoot.
They were less inclined [on] how to be productive people, to
produce goods - whether it would be [chairs inaudible] whether it
would be food.
In other words there were a lot of projects.
There were agricultural projects in Kavango.
There were some other projects in Grootfontein, brick-making in
Ondangwa and so and so on.
And also the management was there to manage them I think also
they found it difficult, because these people had an attitude of
being entitled to better jobs.
The sense of entitlement negated what we were really trying to
do, what we were trying to achieve.
They wanted Government jobs, nothing else.
They wanted to go into the army, but the army couldn't be
stretched.
They [wanted] to go into the police.
In the end we ended up turning them into this unit, what is it
called now, Special Field Force.
Few have remained.
The unit that did well for the DBC had to do with security.
That fitted in [with] the army mentality, carry a uniform and
guard whatever you are guarding.
So, but they were not attuned to producing things of value.
The idea of a business concept was alien to them, to the
majority of them, by and large.
Now, imagine, at the time of the Development Brigade, the
Government was also looking to reduce the size of the State
bureaucracy.
We created - out of the Ministry of Works, Transport and
Communication - Telecom, NamPost, these parastatals.
We created out of the Ministry of Agriculture NamWater, and then
so forth and so on, so many units.
Out of Works and Transport we also carved out the Roads
Authority, Road Fund and what have you.
The question of managing these institutions continues to haunt
us up to now.
It was not only the Development Brigade that was having
difficulties.
What is different is that when these ones went out they were
given buildings, they were given monopoly status, and they were
given capital.
That's now NamPost, Telecom [and] what have you.
The DBC had not had the fortune of having a department of any
Government [department hived off] to give to them as a department
or parastatal.
So, things seem to be discussed out of context.
Now, Hidipo was not a manager for the DBC, I wasn't managing any
institution or business.
A committee appointed somebody, not Hidipo, to go onto the
Board.
The Board, they are the ones who appoint an MD, other managers
and so on and so on.
I think they came up against a wall just to get somebody to
drive these people into big productive units, effective productive
units.
That's what spelled disaster, hardly anything to do with
Hidipo.
Q: So when people enumerate your failures ...
HH:They are talking rubbish actually.
Most of the time they are talking rubbish (let's rip a loud
laugh).
Barden - again I don't know [how] it becomes my project.
I did not negotiate an agreement with Barden.
I did not approach Barden to come to Namibia.
I was part of the team that visited Detroit where the original
idea was discussed.
We went there in the company of the President, in the company of
the Prime Minister today, then Foreign Minister, and the issue was
discussed and it took off from there.
The details of the agreement [worked out - inaudible] with the
Office of the Attorney General, Vekuii Rukoro.
So, it is difficult to pinpoint that it is the role of Hidipo,
if any.
Q: That renders my question about people referring to the
...
HH: Well, all that I can say is those are carefully selected
things and put at my doorstep.
First, they don't belong on my doorstep as Hidipo.
Second, they are just some of the many projects that have
failed.
There was a project to establish a refinery here.
It failed.
There was a company that came here as Namco, looking for
diamonds.
It failed.
We are talking now about millions and million of dollars.
Several companies have failed, whether they went into textiles,
whether they went into diamond mining.
And then there was another one after Namco.
There was a successor to Namco, Lev Leviev.
It failed again.
It is now the third time somebody is trying to pick up the
pieces.
So, one can go on and on tabulating the projects that have
failed, both in the private sector and in the public sector.
To try to lump them together and push them at the doorstep of
Hidipo is way [too] sinister.
Truly, it is sinister.
Q: Let's look at successes, at least so far, like Ramatex.
HH: Well, again I don't want to claim the sole achievement, that
these are my achievements, because that would be a lie.
I have not done anything single-handedly that I want to claim as
my own.
I happened to be the Minister of Trade and Industry.
I happened to have a team that I was working with very closely,
it was very dependable.
That we used to sit together, put our minds together, and went
for the projects.
Ramatex - Ramatex was brought to our attention by one of our
economic councillors in South Africa, and we advised him that he
should send those people here.
He is a good officer.
He used to wake up in the morning and read the economic reports
in the newspapers and magazines in South Africa.
One day he came up with a report that Ramatex was having a
problem with the South African authorities [in] East London where
they wanted to put up a [factory].
The question about land, the question about red tape, and so
on.
When they came over, I was not here, I was away, I think I was
in the States.
I directed that they be met by members of the Cabinet Committee
on Economic Development and Parastatals.
I asked that comrade Theo-Ben Gurirab chair the meeting in my
place.
So, it happened what the people arranged, they were met.
The discussion didn't go as well as they thought it should have
gone.
When I came back ... others were negative.
I then said; well we just check it out.
I sent David Nuuyoma [Head of the Investment Centre in the
Ministry of Trade and Industry] and [Abdul Sataar] Aboobakar, head
of the Offshore Development Company]), to Malaysia to discuss and
to answer questions Ramatex had put to our Government.
One of the [questions] was a matter of something called [harbour
fees] that you pay every time you use a harbour.
Now, they were saying if we don't use Walvis Bay you would not
get a penny from anybody.
Just because we put through 10 containers we must pay about N$10
for every container.
What is this?
They said 'we are an international company, we produce in
several countries to export massive amounts and we are not being
charged [harbour fees].
Why is this?' Apparently [harbour fees] were only a South
African practice.
So we were just claiming a South African tradition.
We did a study.
We took it to Cabinet and Cabinet said to hell with [harbour
fees].
It was not automatic.
Some people were still resisting, I remember that Comrade
President, former Prime Minister Hage Geingob, the present Prime
Minister; they said, so we are going to forgo a project because of
something called harbour fees.
Which we don't get if we don't have anything to handle at the
harbour.
Does it make economic sense?
The President said 'no'; he decided to waive [harbour fees].
From there, we carried the discussion further.
Finally, Ramatex was here.
Q: Are you happy despite the criticism of Ramatex?
HH: Well, when you've got 10 000 people employed, you cannot but
be happy.
When you look at the general situation, it cannot be the best
arrangement, but definitely is a deal that nobody can turn his back
on, when you've got unemployment up to 35 per cent or even
more.
Q: Skorpion Zinc?
HH: Yes, Scorpion Zinc, the same thing.
It was first Union Mines, a British company that came and said
'we will develop this deposit provided certain conditions were
met'.
And we sat down with my team, David Nuuyoma, Aboobakar and all
those guys at Trade and Industry.
We went over a range of issues.
They wanted initially to bring in several hundreds of
technicians from South Africa.
They wanted to be given EPZ status for the value addition
component of the operation.
In other words they'll pay tax on mining.
And before they ship the material, they wanted to smelt and
refine the zinc - that portion should be an EPZ.
We said 'fine'.
And we kept arguing back and forth.
Finally we signed an agreement and they started.
Again, that is a success story that I have been identified with,
but I cannot claim that it is my personal victory.
It's the team I worked with.
We worked so well with the team.
Q: Minister Hamutenya, the issue of poverty is ranked with
HIV-AIDS as one of the biggest impediments to development - not
only in our country - but also in the rest of Africa.
How differently do you intend to deal with that if elected
President?
HH: Yes, it's true, those are the two burning issues of the
day.
Poverty will need to be addressed in a holistic manner.
First, we have to grow the economy.
This means you have to address it in a multi-pronged fashion,
the question of job creation.
One needs to have a very clear and focussed programme to create
jobs in all sectors.
There's room for expansion.
If we can do something more in the mining sector to create jobs,
we will encourage that to happen.
If it's a question of aquaculture, to expand the fishing
industry ... we will support that wholeheartedly.
If it is a question of small and medium enterprises (SMEs),
we'll look at that.
If it's a question of foreign direct investment (FDI) we will do
that, we'll support it.
(If it's) a question of a green scheme, we'll support it.
I think it is by carrying out a simultaneous attack on all those
fronts, that we'll be able to make a dent in poverty.
We address poverty ... to the extent that we are able to create
jobs.
People will have an income, and they are able to do ... things
because they have an income for their families.
Tourism should be added.
Tourism has great potential.
It will require streamlining of the management of our tourist
facilities.
There are those who handle the public.
We need to think about a [questionnaire] for the tourists.
What kind of things do they prefer to have in terms of
accommodation, in terms of entertainment and so forth and so
on.
So, that has to be addressed as a matter of urgency.
If resources cannot be found, we have to think about how to find
resources.
Industry - we cannot relent on that.
I would be happy to have four more Ramatexes.
I think with four more Ramatexes we'll deal a serious body blow
to poverty.
It doesn't have to be textiles, but textiles are the industry
that has launched South East Asian nations into what is called
industrialising countries.
You graduate from clothing into electronics and into other
things.
But textiles are at the forefront of industrialisation.
I think those people now who have been working for a year or two
at Ramatex have a sense of an assembly line in a factory, how it
functions - you do this, somebody does that and things are moving,
and at the end of the line you can see a product being packed and
shipped to go for export.
So, with our EPZ, with AGOA market access, I think we can do
more in this sector.
Then we combine this manufacturing, whether it's for leather
goods, which we have the capacity to produce.
If our tanneries were supplying certain products here in
Windhoek, we would be producing a significant number of shoes and
leather bags, which we can export in significant quantities.
Now, we have the experience, but ... the one is here the other
one there, business in Namibia is so small, they are family
businesses.
That was okay in the past.
Some people were running small businesses that were linked to
South Africa.
But if you want to go into the bigger market of the world you
need economies of scale to make a difference.
Q: To return to the issue of HIV-AIDS.
Would your Cabinet consider, for instance, to publicise the
identities of relatives who have died of AIDS or even to reveal
their own HIV status?
HH:Well, that's fine.
They can do that.
I'm not so sure whether there will be a significant development
in the combating of HIV.
Everybody knows people are dying every day.
It is not a secret that people are sick and people are dying and
that you need to see somebody in a bed or on a stretcher.
Maybe it's okay, it's relevant, but it's not critical.
What is critical is to intensify the awareness campaign in a
much more focussed way.
It is to provide access to drugs to prolong life for those who
are infected.
Q: The one long-running criticism of President Sam Nujoma is
that the size of his Cabinet is bloated to the extent that it
dominates the National Assembly.
What do you say - is that a healthy situation or is it something
that you thought you'd change?
HH: Well, I have not paid sufficient attention to that, but
you'd understand that President Nujoma presided over the first
Cabinet.
There were so many considerations to be taken into account.
Various interests of different communities, consideration of
many people who had devoted a big part of their lives to bringing
about freedom and independence.
So all those factors, I'm sure, influenced the President's
decision to have the Cabinet in the form and structure that it is
now.
I'm not sure that we have made sufficient progress, that we
don't need to look into the state of Government structure for jobs
and for opportunities to serve the people.
Obviously, some people now would like to go into business.
Some have some savings.
They will get their pensions.
I wouldn't be surprised if five of the former ministers and
deputy ministers form the biggest company in Namibia to do
something, to put up a shoe factory and viable tannery and produce
shoe leather ... so something more creative to do.After all, people
are doing much better in the private sector than in the
Government.
So Government cannot be the alpha and omega of all of us from
1990 to the end of our productive lives.
Q: So, will your cabinet be smaller, about the same, bigger...
?
HH:It cannot be bigger, it cannot be bigger.
As I said, I have not paid sufficient attention to it.
It can only be smaller.
It cannot be bigger for the reasons I gave you, that there were
compelling circumstances that I think for now are not as
compelling.
They are relevant but they are not compelling.
Q: And in what other respects would the presidency under Hidipo
Hamutenya differ from the current one?
HH: Oh well, the other one was under President Nujoma, this
under Hidipo, that's already a difference.
We are two different people.
President Nujoma is the founding father.
I will never be a founding father.
He alone can be the founding father, the first President, the
first chairman of the Cabinet of Namibia.
Under those circumstances so many experiments had to be
done.
Maybe there would not be so much need for experimenting in the
future as there was in the past.
Q: Can you tell us about other differences?
Are there some areas on which you would concentrate more than on
others?
HH: We have, as a Government, adopted Vision 2030.
The implementation of Vision 2030 has not yet fully started.
When it fully starts, [and that] will be soon, the priorities
have to be recast to achieve the goals that we set ourselves for
Vision 2030.We would probably look at priorities, we will adjust
them, we will re-order them, but not by much, because most of the
priorities are there now, and they are agreed on collectively by
the leadership of the party and the Government.
But there's no problem to adjust, to re-order priorities, that
can always be a possibility without necessarily deviating radically
from what has been agreed upon already.
Q: The issue of the building of the new State House that some of
us criticise President Sam Nujoma for and even assumed that the old
man didn't want to leave and that's why he was building such a
grand place.
What is your view on this?
HH: You have to thank President Sam Nujoma for doing some of the
things that people in Namibia don't understand.
President Sam Nujoma has been to [many] places across this
globe.
There is not a continent he did not walk upon.
And in all these instances he was welcomed by the governments of
those countries, and there were symbols of State power which he has
been able to observe and witness.
And he felt that when I'm supervising the new State of Namibia,
I want to build some monuments of State power that will stay and
serve the people who will be in place and people who will be
visiting and so forth and so on.
If people had looked at this project from that angle, there
would not have been so much hullabaloo ...
Clearly this ... here is not a monument, is not a State monument
this one.
It's a little thing.
We were in Pretoria yesterday.
You look at the thousands of people who were in Pretoria
yesterday from New Zealand, Australia, the Caribbean, South
America, and Europe.
Yes, some had to go to hotels, but a sizable group of about 30
Presidents and nine Prime Ministers and the entourages they move
with, the hotels were also being stretched to the limit.
So, you want to welcome your visitors in a dignified manner, and
you welcome them in your State edifice.
You go to the Union Building [in Pretoria] you see mammoth
structures there.
They don't belong to Mandela, they don't belong to Thabo
[Mbeki], even De Klerk lived there.
They are still assets of the nation.
There has to be some cost.
The issue is being personalised, the construction of State
House.
'Ja Sam Nujoma doesn't want to leave, he has built himself a big
house'.
Now he is going, he says he is going, and he can keep saying
that he just wanted to build that for the nation.
Unfortunately, if you want great things, you have to pay for
them.
They do not come free of charge, and that one is not like Air
Namibia.
It is there to stay.
It is not like money being put into Air Namibia, which we do not
know how we can sustain it.
This one, once finished, is a one-off project.
Q: Talking of Air Namibia, over the past five years I think they
have pumped a billion into it already.
HH: Most likely.
The question we are unable to answer is; we keep saying we want
to reform it.
We don't easily seem to succeed at reforming it, but somewhere,
at the back of our minds, we have a feeling that we will be able to
turn it around if we find a strategic [partner] or something like
that.
But, clearly, Air Namibia is a problem of management, but is
[also] important for the growth of our tourism industry.
Without Air Namibia, it will be difficult to get tourism to
grow.
And a study has been done in the region.
If you look at the countries that have no capacity to fly
overseas, Namibia comes out (together with Mauritius and others
that have airlines) ... is doing much better in the tourism
sector.
But there is cost to this.
If we can find a solution to the Boeing 747, which seems to be
the main problem of maintaining and operating it, I think we'll be
okay.
Q: Namibia led by President Hidipo Hamutenya - who will be our
international allies or who will be our closest ally?
HH: First our neighbours:Angola, DRC, Botswana, South Africa,
all the SADC member states.
Why?
Because our destiny is tied together.
If one of these countries is under pressure of destabilisation,
it will show in our economy and our stability.
So we value all these relationships.
Then there are the major political and economic powers of the
world with enormous resources.
You need to be in their good books with them and to have cordial
relationships with them.
Whether it will be the USA or China, whether it is France or
Britain and so forth.
We need to maintain good relationships with them.
Q: Ending the interview, now that you are a nominee, what are
you doing, how are you campaigning to make sure that you are
elected?
HH: I'm talking to ... for now, it is a competition among
comrades and within the Swapo system.
So, I do talk to Swapo comrades, those who will be at the
Congress in particular, but all others are valuable, because they
[can] put in a good word to somebody from the congress over a cup
of tea or they meet at the congress or a wedding.
The debate goes on.
You talk to everybody and they come forth themselves wanting to
know what would you do if you were elected.
So you keep talking.
Q: Do you find yourself having to accept more appointments now
than before?
HH: Yes indeed.
Well, I think I could have taken them on before if there were so
many coming, but definitely now that they are pouring in ...
Q: In case there is something I left out...
HH: I know that if I was to be elected, I will be stepping into
the very big shoes of Comrade Sam Nujoma.
He is a very extraordinary man, a hard-working man, a determined
man in pursuit of what he believes in.
He has had the interests of the country at heart and that will
always be [the case], I think, and [he is] one who has never been
found wanting as far as the interests of the country are
concerned.
So, I would seek or elect to emulate those qualities.
I will not be able to match them, but I can definitely strive to
also emulate, to achieve, great things as he did.
He is looking strong and healthy.
He'll be around.
I will make it a point to consult him as often as seems
appropriate.
Q: President Sam Nujoma, we have learnt, has nominated Minister
Pohamba and that he does not want you to become President of this
country.
Do you have the same feeling?
HH: No.
I think the President is a democrat and in democracy we have
preferences.
So, he has shown his preference by nominating Comrade
Pohamba.
At the same time he has shown respect for the views of others,
for the democratic right of others to nominate other [candidates]
and it's how we ended up with three candidates.
And he has accepted to live with the consequences of the
decision taken by the Central Committee last month.
So, I don't think that President Nujoma has anything personally
against me, but he clearly prefers to do his own thing.
He has been with Pohamba for a long time ... all these are
things you have to understand.
Q: I cut you short on anything to add.
HH: What I can say - the question of peace stability and
national unity are the issues that pre-occupy my mind.
I know we have achieved that for the last 15 years.
But I'm also profoundly aware that they can slip away in a
matter of days and there are so many examples around us.
A country called Ivory Coast was a shining example of African
stability and progress.
Liberia, Ethiopia - how they slipped and went back to square
one.
This reminds one constantly that the only guarantee of peace,
security and stability is to remain constantly conscious that
reversals are possible.
Not only possible, but they can happen often.
As a leader of the nation, one has to be constantly on one's
toes to ensure that one does not make an irresponsible move that
will destabilise peace and plunge the country into chaos and
instability.
So that is probably why you see young people ending up, in a few
years time, looking very old.
Because of the heavy burden that one is carrying to maintain
peace and stability.
HH: Nahas was saying that even if it's only for the expansion of
his CV, it's still all right.'If I don't make it, I can always say
I have been a candidate for the Presidency.'Q: Congratulations.Did
you expect to be nominated?HH: I wasn't sure, but it happened.Some
people asked me that if I agree that they would nominate me.I said
fine, so they went ahead and did that.Q: Many people believe, me
included, and I see New Era has written it, that you have been
campaigning to be president for the past 40 years.I wouldn't take
it as far but many people ...HH: They had it wrong.I want to
correct the New Era report.I was on tape [and] anyone who saw my
interview will know that New Era twisted the story.I said that I
have been in the leadership of the organisation for more than 40
years, and that, as a question of campaigning, all those who
followed my story will know that I'm part of the leadership, [and]
that I was nominated shouldn't surprise anybody.That's all I
said.In essence I said that.But New Era said I have been
campaigning for 40 years, not only for the presidency, instead of
saying I said I was campaigning, [but] not for president, but to be
part of the leadership.Q: Many of us believe you have been
campaigning behind the scenes at least for the past few years, are
we correct about this?HH: No you are not correct.The people assumed
that I was, but I don't think anybody has evidence that I was.Q:
Well, when President Nujoma made a statement at the Central
Committee meeting that there were - I think this is what he said -
people campaigning and it could be divisive for the party, again we
assume it was you and former Prime Minister Hage Geingob.What would
you say about that?HH: That was your assumption [chuckle].But truly
speaking, I was not campaigning.Q: How strongly did you believe, or
expect, to be nominated?HH: Well, I knew it depended on others.It
was not up to me.If I was to say I want to be president and project
myself that way, then I would probably have known better, but
others said we'll ask you to stand.It was in their hands.Q: Your
admirers and detractors alike have used these terms - an astute
politician, shrewd, cunning - to characterise you.What do you say
about this characterisation?HH: Well, I don't know that I'm
shrewd.I don't think I'm cunning.They probably need to explain what
they mean by all that.When you are in a public position as I am,
people will have all sorts of perceptions about you and you have no
control over what they say about you.So, I don't know what they are
talking about, being shrewd, being .... whatever they are saying,
I'm not sure.Q: You say that when you are in the public
domain,people form perceptions about you.I think one of the
perceptions one will often hear about Minister Hamutenya is a sense
of fear among people.Sometimes it is not really articulated ... Has
this reached you that there is a sense of fear among some
people?Why do people fear you?HH: Yes, I have heard about that.I
think that people fear me because they don't know me, because they
have not come close enough to me - apparently they have that fear.I
do not know what's the cause of it.One of the reasons is that I
tend to be economic with what I say, with whom I speak, and people
think that I have a lot of things to hide, so that behind this lack
of outspokenness is probably [some] evil intention.I don't know.But
I think all those who come closer to me and have come to know me,
will not have that perception.Some do admit that 'we did not know
you but, apparently, what people say about you is not really what
you are'.Q: Could this perhaps have been fuelled by ... around
1989, people who were detained by Swapo have accused you personally
and other people of having been among the architects of this
so-called Swapo spy drama.I don't know if I ever heard you comment
about those accusations.HH: Because I have never been accused
directly.It was just talk up in the air.Nobody has ever said 'you
were responsible' because if somebody was to do that, it's a lot of
[inaudible] to give me how he or she knows that and what evidence
they can produce, and I can tell you that if anybody is saying I
was instrumental in his or her detention, that person had to be a
liar.And there were more than 40 000 Namibians in exile.I think
they know the story better than some people in the country.Of
course I was part of the leadership of Swapo.Like anybody else who
was in the leadership, one cannot exonerate him- or herself from
what was happening in Swapo.Q: Could that kind of talk be
[happening] among those that fuel the suspicion about you?How do
you hope to get the message across that 'you guys are wrong about
me?'HH: Quite frankly, I don't see myself duty bound to explain
because I have not played any role different from that of anybody
else who was in the leadership.And I know that we were not hiding
in some corner, we were up there in defence of thousands of
Namibians.I think they know the story better.You'll be hard put to
find anyone to clearly state that Hidipo was the architect of the
defence of the revolution and he has gone to excesses in doing a,
b, c, y or z.I don't think you can find anybody who can sincerely
and honestly say that and be able to justify the statement.Q:
Another issue is that you say you are not afraid to take
risks.There have been a few projects that you tried to undertake
that didn't take off.They landed you in quite a lot of controversy,
Pidico notably.One could mention the Development Brigade
[Corporation], a N$10-million dollar Italian pipe manufacturing
project in Walvis Bay.Now we are told Barden International is not
doing so well and you are also being mentioned as having been
instrumental in bringing them to Namibia, or may be not
instrumental, but having presided as trade minister.How would you
respond to this perception that you seem to like courting
controversy.HH: Pidico, Italian and what?Well, Pidico was a venture
of businesspeople who wanted to come here.I did not invest a cent.I
did not have any shares in it.Now, if a businessman comes here and
he says he wants to put up a business, and he says I want you to
help me to identify a place, not I as an individual, but the
Ministry of Trade and Industry was charged with that.How would I
refuse and say 'no, I know you are going to fail.Therefore, I would
not recommend that you be given land'.Pidico was an agricultural
project.When they came here first, they were dealing with the
Ministry of Agriculture and I know that they had a project in
Mozambique.The Ministry of Agriculture sent a deputy minister and a
deputy permanent secretary to Mozambique to look at those
projects.They came.They gave a report, a favourable report, saying
that 'yes, the company could be considered as a viable company'.So
it went.When they came they wanted land.We said sure, why not.We
looked at Kavango, I mean Caprivi and Kavango and finally we
settled for Lake Liambezi as a place [where they could do
business].And they landed 15 tractors in Grootfontein.The tractors
were shipped to Caprivi.Then the quarrel about who owns the tribal
land is how the thing was torpedoed.That [inaudible] Coetzee and
others jumped on it and said what they wanted to say ... One group
in Caprivi agreed to it, and one opposed it later and then the
media storm.So with the media storm, the people who were behind
Pidico said their arrangement, the credit lines they had arranged
internationally could not get off the ground.Q: How did it end up
with you?Anybody who talks about Pidico here will forget about
agriculture.HH: It's the question.And all those tractors were
confiscated by the Ministry of Agriculture.Tractors, 15 of them,
were all left and picked up by the Agriculture Ministry.They said
that, okay; the import tax was not paid so they were going to
confiscate all of them.I think up to now, they still have them; I
don't know where they are.Yet you would want me to be
responsible.That was the time of the [late] Minister [Gert]
Hanekom.So that's that.The Italian - I'd say was with the NDC
(Namibia Development Corporation).The NDC is a company, which was
very much independent, was not getting directives from the Ministry
of Trade and Industry.They pick and choose.They hire qualified
professionals who evaluate projects.Not the Ministry.They don't
need an okay from the Ministry to proceed with any project.And I do
know that the MD of the NDC at that time, Issy Namaseb, did travel
to Italy to see whether they were indeed producing the pipes that
they said they were producing.He went, he came up with the report
and he said 'yes, they are' and [they] have the equipment they
wanted to bring here.The only ["mistake"] that I committed was that
I was head of the Ministry of Trade and Industry under which the
NDC falls.Professional men and women were in charge of NDC.They
made a decision.They travelled to Italy; I didn't travel to Italy,
just like I did not travel to Mozambique.I cannot be responsible
for that kind of decision.Q: On this one, I'm sure you remember the
time when Amcom was closed down The MD of Amcom, Mr Siyambango, was
saying you did indeed personally recommend or push the hand of the
NDC to advance the loan.HH: The only person who could say that is
the MD of the NDC, Issy Namaseb... Of course, if the deal is not
viable, and you want to be a professional, you would say no.So,
it's a lie.But anyway, Siyambango was saying so many things ...
because he didn't want Amcom to be liquidated.This is one ...Now
the DBC - it was a Government project.I was not managing it.I was a
Government minister; I chaired the committee that was dealing with
it.The committee was made up of several ministers.The problem with
the DBC, I think, needs to be understood.We were trying to turn
ex-combatants into people who are productive and also possibly
businessmen and women.That's not Hidipo, it's the Government.People
were experienced in fighting, how to carry guns and how to
shoot.They were less inclined [on] how to be productive people, to
produce goods - whether it would be [chairs inaudible] whether it
would be food.In other words there were a lot of projects.There
were agricultural projects in Kavango.There were some other
projects in Grootfontein, brick-making in Ondangwa and so and so
on.And also the management was there to manage them I think also
they found it difficult, because these people had an attitude of
being entitled to better jobs.The sense of entitlement negated what
we were really trying to do, what we were trying to achieve.They
wanted Government jobs, nothing else.They wanted to go into the
army, but the army couldn't be stretched.They [wanted] to go into
the police.In the end we ended up turning them into this unit, what
is it called now, Special Field Force.Few have remained.The unit
that did well for the DBC had to do with security.That fitted in
[with] the army mentality, carry a uniform and guard whatever you
are guarding.So, but they were not attuned to producing things of
value.The idea of a business concept was alien to them, to the
majority of them, by and large.Now, imagine, at the time of the
Development Brigade, the Government was also looking to reduce the
size of the State bureaucracy.We created - out of the Ministry of
Works, Transport and Communication - Telecom, NamPost, these
parastatals.We created out of the Ministry of Agriculture NamWater,
and then so forth and so on, so many units.Out of Works and
Transport we also carved out the Roads Authority, Road Fund and
what have you.The question of managing these institutions continues
to haunt us up to now.It was not only the Development Brigade that
was having difficulties.What is different is that when these ones
went out they were given buildings, they were given monopoly
status, and they were given capital.That's now NamPost, Telecom
[and] what have you.The DBC had not had the fortune of having a
department of any Government [department hived off] to give to them
as a department or parastatal.So, things seem to be discussed out
of context.Now, Hidipo was not a manager for the DBC, I wasn't
managing any institution or business.A committee appointed
somebody, not Hidipo, to go onto the Board.The Board, they are the
ones who appoint an MD, other managers and so on and so on.I think
they came up against a wall just to get somebody to drive these
people into big productive units, effective productive units.That's
what spelled disaster, hardly anything to do with Hidipo.Q: So when
people enumerate your failures ...HH:They are talking rubbish
actually.Most of the time they are talking rubbish (let's rip a
loud laugh).Barden - again I don't know [how] it becomes my
project.I did not negotiate an agreement with Barden.I did not
approach Barden to come to Namibia.I was part of the team that
visited Detroit where the original idea was discussed.We went there
in the company of the President, in the company of the Prime
Minister today, then Foreign Minister, and the issue was discussed
and it took off from there.The details of the agreement [worked out
- inaudible] with the Office of the Attorney General, Vekuii
Rukoro.So, it is difficult to pinpoint that it is the role of
Hidipo, if any.Q: That renders my question about people referring
to the ...HH: Well, all that I can say is those are carefully
selected things and put at my doorstep.First, they don't belong on
my doorstep as Hidipo.Second, they are just some of the many
projects that have failed.There was a project to establish a
refinery here.It failed.There was a company that came here as
Namco, looking for diamonds.It failed.We are talking now about
millions and million of dollars.Several companies have failed,
whether they went into textiles, whether they went into diamond
mining.And then there was another one after Namco.There was a
successor to Namco, Lev Leviev.It failed again.It is now the third
time somebody is trying to pick up the pieces.So, one can go on and
on tabulating the projects that have failed, both in the private
sector and in the public sector.To try to lump them together and
push them at the doorstep of Hidipo is way [too] sinister.Truly, it
is sinister.Q: Let's look at successes, at least so far, like
Ramatex.HH: Well, again I don't want to claim the sole achievement,
that these are my achievements, because that would be a lie.I have
not done anything single-handedly that I want to claim as my own.I
happened to be the Minister of Trade and Industry.I happened to
have a team that I was working with very closely, it was very
dependable.That we used to sit together, put our minds together,
and went for the projects.Ramatex - Ramatex was brought to our
attention by one of our economic councillors in South Africa, and
we advised him that he should send those people here.He is a good
officer.He used to wake up in the morning and read the economic
reports in the newspapers and magazines in South Africa.One day he
came up with a report that Ramatex was having a problem with the
South African authorities [in] East London where they wanted to put
up a [factory].The question about land, the question about red
tape, and so on.When they came over, I was not here, I was away, I
think I was in the States.I directed that they be met by members of
the Cabinet Committee on Economic Development and Parastatals.I
asked that comrade Theo-Ben Gurirab chair the meeting in my
place.So, it happened what the people arranged, they were met.The
discussion didn't go as well as they thought it should have
gone.When I came back ... others were negative.I then said; well we
just check it out.I sent David Nuuyoma [Head of the Investment
Centre in the Ministry of Trade and Industry] and [Abdul Sataar]
Aboobakar, head of the Offshore Development Company]), to Malaysia
to discuss and to answer questions Ramatex had put to our
Government.One of the [questions] was a matter of something called
[harbour fees] that you pay every time you use a harbour.Now, they
were saying if we don't use Walvis Bay you would not get a penny
from anybody.Just because we put through 10 containers we must pay
about N$10 for every container.What is this?They said 'we are an
international company, we produce in several countries to export
massive amounts and we are not being charged [harbour fees].Why is
this?' Apparently [harbour fees] were only a South African
practice.So we were just claiming a South African tradition.We did
a study.We took it to Cabinet and Cabinet said to hell with
[harbour fees].It was not automatic.Some people were still
resisting, I remember that Comrade President, former Prime Minister
Hage Geingob, the present Prime Minister; they said, so we are
going to forgo a project because of something called harbour
fees.Which we don't get if we don't have anything to handle at the
harbour.Does it make economic sense?The President said 'no'; he
decided to waive [harbour fees].From there, we carried the
discussion further.Finally, Ramatex was here.Q: Are you happy
despite the criticism of Ramatex?HH: Well, when you've got 10 000
people employed, you cannot but be happy.When you look at the
general situation, it cannot be the best arrangement, but
definitely is a deal that nobody can turn his back on, when you've
got unemployment up to 35 per cent or even more.Q: Skorpion
Zinc?HH: Yes, Scorpion Zinc, the same thing.It was first Union
Mines, a British company that came and said 'we will develop this
deposit provided certain conditions were met'.And we sat down with
my team, David Nuuyoma, Aboobakar and all those guys at Trade and
Industry.We went over a range of issues.They wanted initially to
bring in several hundreds of technicians from South Africa.They
wanted to be given EPZ status for the value addition component of
the operation.In other words they'll pay tax on mining.And before
they ship the material, they wanted to smelt and refine the zinc -
that portion should be an EPZ.We said 'fine'.And we kept arguing
back and forth.Finally we signed an agreement and they
started.Again, that is a success story that I have been identified
with, but I cannot claim that it is my personal victory.It's the
team I worked with.We worked so well with the team.Q: Minister
Hamutenya, the issue of poverty is ranked with HIV-AIDS as one of
the biggest impediments to development - not only in our country -
but also in the rest of Africa.How differently do you intend to
deal with that if elected President?HH: Yes, it's true, those are
the two burning issues of the day.Poverty will need to be addressed
in a holistic manner.First, we have to grow the economy.This means
you have to address it in a multi-pronged fashion, the question of
job creation.One needs to have a very clear and focussed programme
to create jobs in all sectors.There's room for expansion.If we can
do something more in the mining sector to create jobs, we will
encourage that to happen.If it's a question of aquaculture, to
expand the fishing industry ... we will support that
wholeheartedly.If it is a question of small and medium enterprises
(SMEs), we'll look at that.If it's a question of foreign direct
investment (FDI) we will do that, we'll support it.(If it's) a
question of a green scheme, we'll support it.I think it is by
carrying out a simultaneous attack on all those fronts, that we'll
be able to make a dent in poverty.We address poverty ... to the
extent that we are able to create jobs.People will have an income,
and they are able to do ... things because they have an income for
their families.Tourism should be added.Tourism has great
potential.It will require streamlining of the management of our
tourist facilities.There are those who handle the public.We need to
think about a [questionnaire] for the tourists.What kind of things
do they prefer to have in terms of accommodation, in terms of
entertainment and so forth and so on.So, that has to be addressed
as a matter of urgency.If resources cannot be found, we have to
think about how to find resources.Industry - we cannot relent on
that.I would be happy to have four more Ramatexes.I think with four
more Ramatexes we'll deal a serious body blow to poverty.It doesn't
have to be textiles, but textiles are the industry that has
launched South East Asian nations into what is called
industrialising countries.You graduate from clothing into
electronics and into other things.But textiles are at the forefront
of industrialisation.I think those people now who have been working
for a year or two at Ramatex have a sense of an assembly line in a
factory, how it functions - you do this, somebody does that and
things are moving, and at the end of the line you can see a product
being packed and shipped to go for export.So, with our EPZ, with
AGOA market access, I think we can do more in this sector.Then we
combine this manufacturing, whether it's for leather goods, which
we have the capacity to produce.If our tanneries were supplying
certain products here in Windhoek, we would be producing a
significant number of shoes and leather bags, which we can export
in significant quantities.Now, we have the experience, but ... the
one is here the other one there, business in Namibia is so small,
they are family businesses.That was okay in the past.Some people
were running small businesses that were linked to South Africa.But
if you want to go into the bigger market of the world you need
economies of scale to make a difference.Q: To return to the issue
of HIV-AIDS.Would your Cabinet consider, for instance, to publicise
the identities of relatives who have died of AIDS or even to reveal
their own HIV status?HH:Well, that's fine.They can do that.I'm not
so sure whether there will be a significant development in the
combating of HIV.Everybody knows people are dying every day.It is
not a secret that people are sick and people are dying and that you
need to see somebody in a bed or on a stretcher.Maybe it's okay,
it's relevant, but it's not critical.What is critical is to
intensify the awareness campaign in a much more focussed way.It is
to provide access to drugs to prolong life for those who are
infected.Q: The one long-running criticism of President Sam Nujoma
is that the size of his Cabinet is bloated to the extent that it
dominates the National Assembly.What do you say - is that a healthy
situation or is it something that you thought you'd change?HH:
Well, I have not paid sufficient attention to that, but you'd
understand that President Nujoma presided over the first
Cabinet.There were so many considerations to be taken into
account.Various interests of different communities, consideration
of many people who had devoted a big part of their lives to
bringing about freedom and independence.So all those factors, I'm
sure, influenced the President's decision to have the Cabinet in
the form and structure that it is now.I'm not sure that we have
made sufficient progress, that we don't need to look into the state
of Government structure for jobs and for opportunities to serve the
people.Obviously, some people now would like to go into
business.Some have some savings.They will get their pensions.I
wouldn't be surprised if five of the former ministers and deputy
ministers form the biggest company in Namibia to do something, to
put up a shoe factory and viable tannery and produce shoe leather
... so something more creative to do.After all, people are doing
much better in the private sector than in the Government.So
Government cannot be the alpha and omega of all of us from 1990 to
the end of our productive lives.Q: So, will your cabinet be
smaller, about the same, bigger... ?HH:It cannot be bigger, it
cannot be bigger.As I said, I have not paid sufficient attention to
it.It can only be smaller.It cannot be bigger for the reasons I
gave you, that there were compelling circumstances that I think for
now are not as compelling.They are relevant but they are not
compelling. Q: And in what other respects would the presidency
under Hidipo Hamutenya differ from the current one?HH: Oh well, the
other one was under President Nujoma, this under Hidipo, that's
already a difference.We are two different people.President Nujoma
is the founding father.I will never be a founding father.He alone
can be the founding father, the first President, the first chairman
of the Cabinet of Namibia.Under those circumstances so many
experiments had to be done.Maybe there would not be so much need
for experimenting in the future as there was in the past.Q: Can you
tell us about other differences?Are there some areas on which you
would concentrate more than on others?HH: We have, as a Government,
adopted Vision 2030.The implementation of Vision 2030 has not yet
fully started.When it fully starts, [and that] will be soon, the
priorities have to be recast to achieve the goals that we set
ourselves for Vision 2030.We would probably look at priorities, we
will adjust them, we will re-order them, but not by much, because
most of the priorities are there now, and they are agreed on
collectively by the leadership of the party and the Government.But
there's no problem to adjust, to re-order priorities, that can
always be a possibility without necessarily deviating radically
from what has been agreed upon already.Q: The issue of the building
of the new State House that some of us criticise President Sam
Nujoma for and even assumed that the old man didn't want to leave
and that's why he was building such a grand place.What is your view
on this?HH: You have to thank President Sam Nujoma for doing some
of the things that people in Namibia don't understand.President Sam
Nujoma has been to [many] places across this globe.There is not a
continent he did not walk upon.And in all these instances he was
welcomed by the governments of those countries, and there were
symbols of State power which he has been able to observe and
witness.And he felt that when I'm supervising the new State of
Namibia, I want to build some monuments of State power that will
stay and serve the people who will be in place and people who will
be visiting and so forth and so on.If people had looked at this
project from that angle, there would not have been so much
hullabaloo ...Clearly this ... here is not a monument, is not a
State monument this one.It's a little thing.We were in Pretoria
yesterday.You look at the thousands of people who were in Pretoria
yesterday from New Zealand, Australia, the Caribbean, South
America, and Europe.Yes, some had to go to hotels, but a sizable
group of about 30 Presidents and nine Prime Ministers and the
entourages they move with, the hotels were also being stretched to
the limit.So, you want to welcome your visitors in a dignified
manner, and you welcome them in your State edifice.You go to the
Union Building [in Pretoria] you see mammoth structures there.They
don't belong to Mandela, they don't belong to Thabo [Mbeki], even
De Klerk lived there.They are still assets of the nation.There has
to be some cost.The issue is being personalised, the construction
of State House.'Ja Sam Nujoma doesn't want to leave, he has built
himself a big house'.Now he is going, he says he is going, and he
can keep saying that he just wanted to build that for the
nation.Unfortunately, if you want great things, you have to pay for
them.They do not come free of charge, and that one is not like Air
Namibia.It is there to stay.It is not like money being put into Air
Namibia, which we do not know how we can sustain it.This one, once
finished, is a one-off project.Q: Talking of Air Namibia, over the
past five years I think they have pumped a billion into it
already.HH: Most likely.The question we are unable to answer is; we
keep saying we want to reform it.We don't easily seem to succeed at
reforming it, but somewhere, at the back of our minds, we have a
feeling that we will be able to turn it around if we find a
strategic [partner] or something like that.But, clearly, Air
Namibia is a problem of management, but is [also] important for the
growth of our tourism industry.Without Air Namibia, it will be
difficult to get tourism to grow.And a study has been done in the
region.If you look at the countries that have no capacity to fly
overseas, Namibia comes out (together with Mauritius and others
that have airlines) ... is doing much better in the tourism
sector.But there is cost to this.If we can find a solution to the
Boeing 747, which seems to be the main problem of maintaining and
operating it, I think we'll be okay.Q: Namibia led by President
Hidipo Hamutenya - who will be our international allies or who will
be our closest ally?HH: First our neighbours:Angola, DRC, Botswana,
South Africa, all the SADC member states.Why?Because our destiny is
tied together.If one of these countries is under pressure of
destabilisation, it will show in our economy and our stability.So
we value all these relationships.Then there are the major political
and economic powers of the world with enormous resources.You need
to be in their good books with them and to have cordial
relationships with them.Whether it will be the USA or China,
whether it is France or Britain and so forth.We need to maintain
good relationships with them.Q: Ending the interview, now that you
are a nominee, what are you doing, how are you campaigning to make
sure that you are elected?HH: I'm talking to ... for now, it is a
competition among comrades and within the Swapo system.So, I do
talk to Swapo comrades, those who will be at the Congress in
particular, but all others are valuable, because they [can] put in
a good word to somebody from the congress over a cup of tea or they
meet at the congress or a wedding.The debate goes on.You talk to
everybody and they come forth themselves wanting to know what would
you do if you were elected.So you keep talking.Q: Do you find
yourself having to accept more appointments now than before?HH: Yes
indeed.Well, I think I could have taken them on before if there
were so many coming, but definitely now that they are pouring in
...Q: In case there is something I left out...HH: I know that if I
was to be elected, I will be stepping into the very big shoes of
Comrade Sam Nujoma.He is a very extraordinary man, a hard-working
man, a determined man in pursuit of what he believes in.He has had
the interests of the country at heart and that will always be [the
case], I think, and [he is] one who has never been found wanting as
far as the interests of the country are concerned.So, I would seek
or elect to emulate those qualities.I will not be able to match
them, but I can definitely strive to also emulate, to achieve,
great things as he did.He is looking strong and healthy.He'll be
around.I will make it a point to consult him as often as seems
appropriate.Q: President Sam Nujoma, we have learnt, has nominated
Minister Pohamba and that he does not want you to become President
of this country.Do you have the same feeling?HH: No.I think the
President is a democrat and in democracy we have preferences.So, he
has shown his preference by nominating Comrade Pohamba.At the same
time he has shown respect for the views of others, for the
democratic right of others to nominate other [candidates] and it's
how we ended up with three candidates.And he has accepted to live
with the consequences of the decision taken by the Central
Committee last month.So, I don't think that President Nujoma has
anything personally against me, but he clearly prefers to do his
own thing.He has been with Pohamba for a long time ... all these
are things you have to understand.Q: I cut you short on anything to
add.HH: What I can say - the question of peace stability and
national unity are the issues that pre-occupy my mind.I know we
have achieved that for the last 15 years.But I'm also profoundly
aware that they can slip away in a matter of days and there are so
many examples around us.A country called Ivory Coast was a shining
example of African stability and progress.Liberia, Ethiopia - how
they slipped and went back to square one.This reminds one
constantly that the only guarantee of peace, security and stability
is to remain constantly conscious that reversals are possible.Not
only possible, but they can happen often.As a leader of the nation,
one has to be constantly on one's toes to ensure that one does not
make an irresponsible move that will destabilise peace and plunge
the country into chaos and instability.So that is probably why you
see young people ending up, in a few years time, looking very
old.Because of the heavy burden that one is carrying to maintain
peace and stability.